From aa0912 at wayne.edu Thu Jun 17 14:11:04 2004 From: aa0912 at wayne.edu (Charles K. Hyde) Date: Thu Jun 17 14:06:11 2004 Subject: [BHC] DPL DECISION TO CHARGE NON-DETROITERS $100 A YEAR TO USE THE LIBRARY Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040617170043.009ff3e0@mail.wayne.edu> Hello all: There are a few questions I have about this policy which, hopefully, some of you may be able to answer. The DPL news release implies that prior to State funding which began in 1977, non-residents of the City of Detroit were not allowed to use the Detroit Public Library. Was this the case before 1977? Library Director Nancy Skowronski stated in the news release that fees of this sort are common at urban libraries around the nation and at other public libraries in Michigan. Does anyone know how many public libraries in Michigan and charge fees for use by non-residents and more important, the size of those fees? Finally, does anyone have a sense of how many Detroit residents AND non-Detroit residents hold library cards at DPL? What is the proportion? Thanks in advance for any information have have. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://aries.lunarpages.com/pipermail/bhc_habitant.org/attachments/20040617/5f2a7bc5/attachment.htm From georgia at corpsie.com Thu Jun 17 15:26:52 2004 From: georgia at corpsie.com (Georgia Clark) Date: Thu Jun 17 15:26:19 2004 Subject: [BHC] DPL DECISION TO CHARGE NON-DETROITERS $100 A YEAR TO USE THELIBRARY References: <5.1.0.14.2.20040617170043.009ff3e0@mail.wayne.edu> Message-ID: <40D21AAC.A8E9230E@corpsie.com> Dear Charles, I spoke to a staff person at the Livonia Library and she told me that for someone who is not in The Library Network (which includes Livonia and about 50 other libraries), the library charges a fee for the library card. She thought it was $125.00 and that this was not a new fee. I belong to a St.Louis Missouri mailing list and, if I remember correctly, non-residents of St. Louis and St. Louis County are charged a fee to have a card-think it was $50.00. When you say that non residents were not allowed to use the library, did you mean having a Detroit library card or to physically not be able to enter the library? I remember going to the main library when I was a junior or senior in high school and there was no fee but I did not have a card-just used the reference section. I lived in Dearborn. Georgia "Charles K. Hyde" wrote: > Burton Historical Collection List > _______________________________________________ > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Hello all: > > There are a few questions I have about this policy which, hopefully, > some of you may be able to answer. > > The DPL news release implies that prior to State funding which began > in 1977, non-residents of the City of Detroit were not allowed to use > the Detroit Public Library. Was this the case before 1977? > > Library Director Nancy Skowronski stated in the news release that fees > of this sort are common at urban libraries around the nation and at > other public libraries in Michigan. > > Does anyone know how many public libraries in Michigan and charge > fees for use by non-residents and more important, the size of those > fees? > > Finally, does anyone have a sense of how many Detroit residents AND > non-Detroit residents hold library cards at DPL? What is the > proportion? > > Thanks in advance for any information have have. > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > BHC mailing list > BHC@habitant.org > http://habitant.org/mailman/listinfo/bhc_habitant.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://aries.lunarpages.com/pipermail/bhc_habitant.org/attachments/20040617/d7ab6b96/attachment.htm From dulongj at habitant.org Thu Jun 17 16:45:31 2004 From: dulongj at habitant.org (John P. DuLong) Date: Thu Jun 17 16:44:05 2004 Subject: [BHC] Fee for Using the BHC is Imminent Message-ID: Hello Folks, Well it has happened. The Detroit Library Commission voted on 15 June 2004 to impose fees on non-Detroiters starting 1 August 2004. You have to pay this fee if you want to check out any books AND IF YOU WANT TO USE THE BURTON HISTORICAL COLLECTION and the other special collections. The fee is $100 per year. This is by far the stupidest idea the Detroit Library Commission has come up with. Although many libraries charge a circulation fee for non-residents, to my knowledge, very few, if any, public libraries charge an access fee to use special collections. What do they hope to accomplish? Will they get $4 million to replace the state funding? I think not. Even if 1000 of us pay up that will only be $100,000. I will be suprised if more than 500 pay this fee. Will imposing this fee further detererorate the relationship between the city and the suburbs? Will it lead to a further decline in donations? Will it create a public relations nightmare for the library? Is this punishing the very people who have financially supported the library in the past and advocated for it in Lansing? Will this move damage the millage renewal campaign? Have the administrators and the library commissioners completely failed to understand the huge negative consequences of this decision and the few, if any, positive impacts of this foolish policy? The answer is yes to all these questions. Most of you will be asking why you should pay $100 a year to use the Burton when you can go to the Library of Michigan or the Allen County Public Library, get better service, and, with the exception of some unique treasures, have access to more genealogical and historical resources. The only people who will feel compelled to pay the fee are those with Detroit ancestry. The following press release fails to answer so many questions: (1) What about a break for non-resident Detroit tax payers who work in the city? (2) What about students who live outside of Detroit but attend school inside the city? (3) What about members of societies that have contributed substantial funds to the Burton over the years, will their members be given discounts? And (4) what about the out of state researcher who shows up to use the Burton just once and finds they have to drop $100? I am sure you can think of more questions. The Friends of the Detroit Public Library are comming up with an arrangement that if you join them for $150 a year you not only became a member of the Friends, but also get to check out books and use the special collections. If you do join up, then remember to tell them that you want to also be a Friend of the Burton Historical Collection so hopefully your money will go to that collection. Folks, I think it is time to get active again. Please share your thoughts on this issue here on our list. Many DPL staff and administrators read this list. Let them know how you feel about this fee. Also, please write a letter to the editor at the Detroit News and the Detroit Free Press. Let them know that this stinks. Lastly, I think it is time to consider protest actions. What can we do as a community of researchers to publically protest this decision? Frankly, I think this decision shows the poverty of leadership by the Detroit Library Commission and the library administration. They should be thinking of ways to pull people into the library to encourage their support, not ways to alienate their patrons. These people have to go! One last point. Please be kind to the people in the ranks. The librarians and staff did not make this decision. The Friends of the Burton Historical Collection Trustees and the National Automotive Historical Collection Trustees were not consulted for their advice on this police. I understand that guidelines are not too clear for this decision and I doubt they will be by 1 August 2004. Please be patient with the staff. Direct your anger to the idiots in the front office and on the library commission. Here is the text of the official anncouncement: ********* For Immediate Release June 15, 2004 State Funding Cuts Result In New Library Fees Today the Detroit Public Library Commission approved a new fee schedule for non-Detroit residents. Effective August 1, 2004, the Detroit Public Library (DPL) will institute an annual charge of $100 per person or household for service to customers who do not live in the City of Detroit. Following the lead of suburban libraries, including Canton, Ann Arbor, and Kalamazoo, this non-resident fee will help offset the costs of library services. Since 1977, DPL was considered a state resource, and received state funding. This allowed free access to DPL resources and services, thus non-Detroit residents could enjoy the same access as customers who pay property taxes in Detroit. Last year, the State of Michigan completely eliminated funding that supported free access enjoyed by non-Detroit residents. Detroiters have continued to support the Library by passing and renewing a millage that provides funding to directly support the operational needs of the library. ? The new policy mirrors similar fees charged by other Michigan Public Libraries and other urban libraries surveyed across the country,? explained Library Director and CEO, Nancy Skowronski, ?The Library is pleased to continue to provide access to non-resident customers, but our Detroit community is our first priority.? A new DPL library card will be required. Current non-resident cardholders and new borrowers will fill out a simple application, available in August, that will allow use and borrowing privileges from the Detroit Public Library Main Library, the 24 neighborhood branches throughout the City, and the library on wheels, commonly referred to as the Bookmobile. A letter will be sent to current non-resident cardholders in early August along with an application for the new DPL library card. The Friends of the Detroit Public Library, the long-time supporters of library collections and programs, will be instituting a membership plan to encompass the new fees. The new non-resident library card will be required to borrow materials and use DPL special collections. Special collections include the Burton Historical Collection, The E. Azalia Hackley Music and Performing Arts Collection, and the National Automotive History Collection. Future library funding in Detroit is dependent upon a millage request to appear on the November ballot. If approved with support from the voters in Detroit, it will allow continued library services to the community. The Detroit Public Library is among the largest public libraries in the nation, and is the largest library system in the State of Michigan. The Main Library and its 24 neighborhood branches make it one of the most valuable and accessible public institutions in Metropolitan Detroit. To find out more about special collections, on-line database services as well as career and employment information, visit the Detroit Public Library web site at http://www.detroitpubliclibrary.org or any local branch library. ********** John P. DuLong, Ph.D. Acadian and French Canadian Genealogy 959 Oxford Road Berkley, MI 48072-2011 (248) 541-2894 http://habitant.org From dulongj at habitant.org Thu Jun 17 16:55:38 2004 From: dulongj at habitant.org (John P. DuLong) Date: Thu Jun 17 16:54:11 2004 Subject: [BHC] DPL DECISION TO CHARGE NON-DETROITERS $100 A YEAR TO USE THELIBRARY In-Reply-To: <40D21AAC.A8E9230E@corpsie.com> Message-ID: Georgia Clark [mailto:georgia@corpsie.com] wrote: >When you say that non residents were not allowed to use the library, did you mean having a Detroit library card or to >physically not be able to enter the library? I remember going to the main library when I was a junior or senior in high >school and there was no fee but I did not have a card-just used the reference section. I lived in Dearborn. I want to make this crystal clear. The Detroit Library Commissioners expect you to pay to have access to the special collections. This means you can not use the Burton Historical Collection without paying $100 each year. Many libraries charge outsiders for borrowing privileges. I see no problem with that. What is going beyond the pale is to charge people access to the collection. I know of no public library that charges for access to a collection. Just think of the irony. Your family may have donated papers to the Burton and now you will have to pay $100 to view them!!! All you DSGR members out there, think about the new chairs your group donated to the library. You will have to pay $100 to sit in them. This is going to kill off the special collections. Most of the supporters for these collections are non-Detroiters. How willing are non-Detroiters going to be to continue financial donations to the library under these circumstances? Perhaps we should protest by getting T-shirts printed up with a picture of the DPL on it and the motto "Let My Ancestors Go, Free the Burton Historical Collection." What do you think? One last thought. The Detroit Library Commissioners tell us that the money from the state was to support their service to the non-Detroiters. I would like to see a financial report showing exactly how this state money was spent over the years. Did it really go to the special collections that are so heavily used by non-Detroiters, I think not. Ultimately, the reason the library lost the state money is because the Detroit Library Commissioners and the library administration has mishandled the funds as is well documented in the report of the Detroit Auditor General (see http://www3.ci.detroit.mi.us/legislative/CharterAppointments/AuditorGeneral/ Reports/DPL%20Report.pdf). The idiots who let this situation happen are still in charge. Why should they be trusted with our tax dollars? A lot of Detroiters are going to be asking the same question when they have to vote on the library millage. I got to go and relax now before my blood pressure hits the roof. Good night everyone, let us hope tomorrow brings some better news. JP John P. DuLong, Ph.D. Acadian and French Canadian Genealogy 959 Oxford Road Berkley, MI 48072-2011 USA (248) 541-2894 dulongj@habitant.org From ChristieTrapp at aol.com Thu Jun 17 17:19:29 2004 From: ChristieTrapp at aol.com (ChristieTrapp@aol.com) Date: Thu Jun 17 17:19:28 2004 Subject: [BHC] Fee for Using the BHC is Imminent Message-ID: <15f.30e02262.2e038f11@aol.com> John, and others You're right. The new fees will stem the flow of bodies coming through its doors which will then result in the library to be closed due to lack of warm bodies. It sounds to me like they want to make this "Public" library into a "Private" library, similar to the NEHGS in Boston! I, for one, live in California and WILL NOT pay $100 just to come for a week or two to visit and use its facilities. I had planned on doing this probably in 2005 when my husband and I are thinking about heading to Cleveland for a family reunion. But if we have to pay to get into the Burton Collection, then we will probably head to the Allen County library instead. I would probably not complain about paying a daily fee of some kind, but not an annual fee, though maybe the daily fee might add up to the $100 annual fee. But overall, since it is a public library, I don't see how they can impose use fees. Maybe I'm not understanding what a public library is these days. Perhaps a local senator or a congressman should be stepping into look at this issue - public versus private. Was this a library set up by Carnagie?? What does the legal language say about the Burton Library?? Is there something in the current law that allows a public library to charge fees?? Perhaps I'm missing something here. Or maybe I'm confusing free with fee? Christie Trapp California -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://aries.lunarpages.com/pipermail/bhc_habitant.org/attachments/20040617/42aeac9e/attachment.htm From dulongj at habitant.org Thu Jun 17 18:26:13 2004 From: dulongj at habitant.org (John P. DuLong) Date: Thu Jun 17 18:24:45 2004 Subject: [BHC] One Last Question Message-ID: Sorry Folks, but one last question. Does anyone know if the vote of the Detroit Library Commission was unanimous for imposing fees? I wonder if the new commissioners voted along with the old commissioners in favor of the fee. Also, I apologize for all the spelling and formatting mistakes on the previous message, I was in too much of a hurry. JP John P. DuLong, Ph.D. Acadian and French Canadian Genealogy 959 Oxford Road Berkley, MI 48072-2011 USA (248) 541-2894 dulongj@habitant.org From ljbaldinger at hotmail.com Thu Jun 17 18:31:31 2004 From: ljbaldinger at hotmail.com (Jan Baldinger) Date: Thu Jun 17 18:31:29 2004 Subject: [BHC] Fee for using library Message-ID: Dear list, I belong to the Ann Arbor library as a non resident. I pay $150.00 per year for the privilege. However, I could use the library facilities for nothing. I couldn't check out books. The Ann Arbor library is a terrific library with many more books on tape and books than the Brighton library. I haven't checked out books since I left Wayne State in 1969, however, I have used the Burton collection. It would be too difficult to return books to Detroit, so I won't get a card. However, can I use the Burton Collection? Thanks for letting me know about what is happening to Burton. I could cry if I can't use it. Jan Baldinger Brighton, MI -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://aries.lunarpages.com/pipermail/bhc_habitant.org/attachments/20040617/3d102b10/attachment-0001.htm From JDuncan802 at aol.com Fri Jun 18 06:38:56 2004 From: JDuncan802 at aol.com (JDuncan802@aol.com) Date: Fri Jun 18 06:38:58 2004 Subject: [BHC] DPL fees Message-ID: <143.2bf26780.2e044a70@aol.com> I think that the initial reaction to the proposal of the administration of the Detroit Public Library to charge non-Detroit residents a fee to use the library has an even more far reaching impact. What will happen to the genealogical societies, and other groups who have used the Detroit Main Library as a location for their meetings? Does this mean that a non-Detroiter attendee would have to pay $100 to get in the door? What about ticketed events held at the library - will non-Detroit residents have to tack on an extra $100 to the cost of the ticket? The library administration and commissioners do not seem to understand the difference between using a library card to WITHDRAW items from a library and being able to enter a public library and look at its contents on site. I tried to explain that to one of the commissioners at a previous meeting, when he said that he would have to pay to go to the Birmingham or Grosse Pointe library. I told him after the meeting (since we are not allowed to make comments during the library commission meeting), that he could walk into ANY of the libraries and look at shelved materials without paying a fee. It is only when one, as a non-resident, wishes to check material OUT that a charge is made for a non-resident library card. That distinction seems to be lost by the administration and board. It also seems incongruous that the Burton staff can do free research for people who phone or email the collection, yet those whomake the effort to come into the collection to do their own research will be charged. At a time when the mayor is trying to encourage tourism in Detroit, those from out of town who wish to do research in the Automotive History, A. Hackley, Ernie Harwell, or Burton Collection are basically being told, "Pay us $100 or get lost!" I cannot imagine that out of town guests who have heard of the outstanding special collections will rush to pay $100 for a one time glimpse of what they contain! Perhaps the adminstration needs to take a trip to the Allen County Library in Ft. Wayne, Indiana to see how positive promotion of that library's genealogical collection has enhanced the city and helped to revitalize the downtown area. By the way, I used to visit the Burton Collection and the library in the 1970s and never paid any fee that I recall. I was not there to check out books. Mary Lou Duncan From JDuncan802 at aol.com Fri Jun 18 06:53:38 2004 From: JDuncan802 at aol.com (JDuncan802@aol.com) Date: Fri Jun 18 06:53:37 2004 Subject: [BHC] Burton fee Message-ID: Just thought of something else. Will all tours of the Burton Collection now be limited to Detroit residents? Will tours by school groups from outside Detroit be charged $100 per person? That would effectively end tours by any except Detroiters, and the Burton Historical Collection will literally become past history, known only to those who currently live in the city. What about Wayne State students, who often use the collection for research on student assignments? Will those students who live outside of Detroit (and there are many) be penalized by being charged an additonal fee of $100 so that they can finish an architecture or Detroit history assignment that depends upon information to be found in the collection? The Detroit Society for Genealogical Research may be sorry that it previously donated a microfilm reader-printer and many chairs to the Burton Collection and now must pay to sit in those chairs. M.L.Duncan From afaulkner4847 at wideopenwest.com Fri Jun 18 07:57:13 2004 From: afaulkner4847 at wideopenwest.com (Ann Faulkner) Date: Fri Jun 18 07:57:08 2004 Subject: [BHC] Press Release Message-ID: <007d01c45544$8a2c1b60$b3fc2f45@ann> The information in the press release stating "the new policy mirrors similar fees charged by other Michigan Public Libraries is a LIE. Specifically mentioned are Kalamazoo, Ann Arbor, and Canton. I have contacted all three, and NONE of these libraries charge non-residents to use their collections. Non-resident fees for borrowing privileges is common, but as far as known NO PUBLIC LIBRARY CHARGES non-resident fees to access their collections on-site. I have used the Burton Historical Collection since the mid 1950's and have never paid a non-resident fee to access the collection. Ann Faulkner, Harrison Township From aa0912 at wayne.edu Fri Jun 18 08:40:39 2004 From: aa0912 at wayne.edu (Charles K. Hyde) Date: Fri Jun 18 08:35:34 2004 Subject: [BHC] OUR "WONDERFUL" DETROIT LIBRARY COMMISSIONERS Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040618112919.009f8950@mail.wayne.edu> Gee Whiz ! We now learn from Ann Faulkner what many of us suspected all along--the Press Release "explaining" the new fees imposed on visitors to the DPL has a few lies buried within it. Other libraries do not charge fees for people to simply use their collections. Is this first time these wonderful commissioners have done this? Mary Lou Duncan has also pointed out the obvious to us---No thought was given to the implementation of the new policy OR its long-term impact. Does this surprise anyone? This is what the citizens of Detroit and all the users of the Detroit Public Library are up against. We all need to decide what to do about it. From DFantore at aol.com Fri Jun 18 08:38:45 2004 From: DFantore at aol.com (DFantore@aol.com) Date: Fri Jun 18 08:38:47 2004 Subject: [BHC] Fees Message-ID: I do not live in Detroit, but I like using the Burton, and will be doing moreso as I'm moving back to Michigan. Here in Washington, DC, I do not mind paying the $5 entry fee to the DAR library. It seems reasonable. I understand the need for the library to make revenues. As a non-Detroiter, I would prefer that kind of system, a pay-as-you-go system. Dan Fantore -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://aries.lunarpages.com/pipermail/bhc_habitant.org/attachments/20040618/c42f7b58/attachment.htm From cathycompton at earthlink.net Fri Jun 18 09:25:11 2004 From: cathycompton at earthlink.net (Cathy Compton) Date: Fri Jun 18 09:20:03 2004 Subject: [BHC] the fee Message-ID: Dear List, I, too, live outside of Detroit and use the Burton and Rare Books collections from time to time. It will be a huge shame if this plan goes into effect. I am rather sure I will not pay $100. per year just in case I might want to do research in the Burton. I usually give that much to the Friends of the DPL, so maybe I'll just give the increased amount to them. My own community of Pleasant Ridge has no library of its own and pays a yearly fee to use a nearby library. They solicit bids for a 5-year contract, and will pay approximately $35,000 per year in the next five years. This fee is only necessary for our residents to obtain a library card to use for borrowing privileges. No fee is required for access to the libraries. Before we had a blanket contract, about 15 years ago, we paid about $15.00/year each for our cards at a designated library and the City matched the amount. I seem to remember that at that time, Royal Oak charged non-residents $25.00/year. This brings to mind my visit to "the first public library in the world" in Manchester, England. Mind you, it was not a "lending" library. I do not know what I had expected, but after winding our way through a boys' academy, and up through several stacks, we came to a small room with a few historic markers and a single desk. Chained to it were about a dozen ancient volumes, each with its own chain about five feet long. I was shocked. Of course, I had expected it to be a lending library, though I had believed the first one of those to be in Philadelphia. It was explained that this desk was the first place where non-scholars could read books, but clearly, they were not trusted to even take them to another table. If this new fee is enacted, it will seem as if the special collections have been chained up, and the clock has been turned back hundreds of years, to a time when education and even literacy itself was only possible for the rich. Cathy Compton, Pleasant Ridge, MI From JDuncan802 at aol.com Fri Jun 18 09:47:09 2004 From: JDuncan802 at aol.com (JDuncan802@aol.com) Date: Fri Jun 18 09:47:13 2004 Subject: [BHC] Public versus private libraries Message-ID: <1a2.25b76203.2e04768d@aol.com> In answer to Dan, I have no problem with a patron paying a small fee for access to a PRIVATE library. I do a question as to whether or not a person should have to pay a fee to visit a PUBLIC library. There is a definite distinction between the two! I feel that Clarence Burton would roll over in his grave if he knew that people were going to have to pay to access the collection that he gave to the Detroit Library with an endowment for its support. Mary Lou Duncan From LaurieMcK at aol.com Fri Jun 18 14:55:18 2004 From: LaurieMcK at aol.com (LaurieMcK@aol.com) Date: Fri Jun 18 14:55:17 2004 Subject: [BHC] Fees Message-ID: <102.481c897b.2e04bec6@aol.com> In a message dated 6/18/2004 11:39:54 AM Eastern Standard Time, DFantore@aol.com writes: > I do not live in Detroit, but I like using the Burton, and will be doing > moreso as I'm moving back to Michigan. Here in Washington, DC, I do not mind > paying the $5 entry fee to the DAR library. It seems reasonable. I > understand the need for the library to make revenues. As a non-Detroiter, I would > prefer that kind of system, a pay-as-you-go system. Just a little information about the DAR Library. It is NOT a public library. It is a privately owned library, supported solely by the members of DAR. So - it does make sense that there is a $5 entry fee for non-members. Laurie Levy Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.699 - Virus Database: 456 - Release Date: 6/4/2004 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://aries.lunarpages.com/pipermail/bhc_habitant.org/attachments/20040618/f3debf3c/attachment.htm From dulongj at habitant.org Fri Jun 18 18:58:13 2004 From: dulongj at habitant.org (John P. DuLong) Date: Fri Jun 18 18:56:44 2004 Subject: [BHC] More Internal DPL Information on the Fee Message-ID: Hello Folks, Below is an internal Detroit Public Library memo some kind person sent to me. Thanks. Note they are already weakening and making an exception for students. I heard the annual fee announced on WDET today, I will try and get equal time for our view point next week. Lastly, I understand that the newspapers will have articles on this issue this weekend. Please keep an eye out for them. We should probably hold off writing letters to the editors until the articles appear. I will send out a reminder. JP ********** MEMORANDUM Date: June 17, 2004 To: All DPL Employees From: Nancy Skowronski, Director and CEO Subject: All sorts of things! Library Card for Non-residents At its June 15, 2004 meeting, the Detroit Library Commission approved a new charge for a non-resident library card effective August 1. This card, which will cost $100 for one person or household per year, allows borrowing privileges at all DPL agencies and access to all of DPL?s special collections. In other words, to use any of the special collections at Main or at Skillman, a library card must be presented. This new policy exempts students who attend Detroit schools and have a valid student ID from that school. It is important to note that the term ?resident ? from now on only applies to those Detroiters who are residents in the City. These customers will continue to enjoy free access to our materials and/or collections. Non-residents will now have to buy a non-resident library card to receive these same privileges. New Library Card Application Forms, Policies, Fees and Fines The Service Issues Forum, Public Services Team, and the Executive Management Team reviewed and modified the library card application form, policies, fees and fines. The result is a condensed application form that is more efficient and customer friendly. Directions for implementation will be communicated from Public Services in the coming weeks State Funding This is a recap of email I have sent previously. Governor Granholm appropriated $1 million to DPL in her FY 05 budget. The House removed $500,000 from this appropriation and sent the appropriations bill to the Senate. The Senate removed all money for DPL. In addition it removed $1.5 million from a proposed digitization fund, slated for libraries. (The House had not touched this line item.) Since the Senate bill revised the House bill, both bills have been referred to a conference committee. No date has been announced for this committee hearing. Stay tuned. Pending Library Cooperative Legislation At the suggestion of Senators Tom George and Hansen Clarke, DPL is pursuing cooperative status from the Library of Michigan under PA 89. To date Senate Bill 1277, sponsored by Senators George and Clarke, among others, and House Bill HB 5977, sponsored by Representatives Ed Gaffney and Mary Waters, among others, have been introduced for consideration. Both bills seek a technical amendment to PA89 to lower the population requirement from 1 million to 750,000 for a single library to be eligible as a cooperative. If you recall, DPL lost $450,000 in state-aid revenue last year, when our coop, DAL (Detroit Associated Libraries), was closed. I testified before the House of Representatives Committee on Local Government and Public Policy on June 9th. The Committee voted 7-0 to approve this bill. The hearing before the Senate Committee on Local, Urban and State Issues has not been scheduled. If either bill is successful, DPL will withdraw from the Library Network as a member. Stay tuned to this issue also. Millage Campaign I am pleased to announce that the three chairs of the Millage Campaign Committee for Detroit Public Library have been named. The co-chairs are: Reverend Wendell Anthony, President of Detroit?s NAACP; Ms. Betty Brooks, Community Activist; and Ms. Frankie Darcell from WMXD ? the Mix 92.3. By now, you each should have received information on upcoming staff focus groups that will begin next week. In addition to focus groups for customers, non-customers and Friends, a mail survey will be sent out soon to customers. These focus groups and surveys will provide the Committee with valuable information on perceptions and needs to be addressed by the library system. Branch News The Commission approved a renovation review by the SmithGroup for the closed Mark Twain Branch. You will remember that the SmithGroup was the architectural firm that renovated the Skillman branch. This review will help determine costs and a timeline for renovation consideration of this branch. Campbell Branch I am pleased to announce that Campbell Branch will be reopened in 2005 in a brand new location. Library Commission approved the lease of property in Southwest Detroit, which will be the new home for Campbell Branch. The property slated for Campbell Branch is located at Vernor and Lawndale and is a part of the ?Lawndale Station Development Project,? a $20 million historic commercial-residential renovation project in Southwest Detroit. ********** John P. DuLong, Ph.D. Acadian and French Canadian Genealogy 959 Oxford Road Berkley, MI 48072-2011 USA (248) 541-2894 dulongj@habitant.org From dulongj at habitant.org Fri Jun 18 19:05:10 2004 From: dulongj at habitant.org (John P. DuLong) Date: Fri Jun 18 19:03:41 2004 Subject: [BHC] What Would Clarence Say? Message-ID: Folks, Some of you asked what Mr. Burton's agreements with the library say on the issue of fees. Actually, he does not endorse fees, in fact he states: "The library is to be retained as an entirety to perpetually bear the name of Burton in some way connected with its title. The public shall have access to the library in general for consultation and study." See the 1914 Burton Gift Agreement for more details at http://habitant.org/bhcfiles/Burton%20Historical%20Collection%20Gift%20and%2 0Endowment.pdf Clearly, he expected his collection to be open and public. What an irony that his descendants living in the suburbs are now going to have to pay to visit their ancestor's collection. Wonder what Ernie Harwell things about this fee? Do you think I should call him? Folks, think of the time between now and 1 August 2004 as the period in which we make our viewpoint heard loud and clear. We have several weeks to try and get this stupid fee policy modified or abolished. I noticed that our unproductive commissioners do not even meet in July and August, so our first opportunity to protest in an official meeting is 21 September 2004. If the fee is not altered in our favor by September, then I suspect enough of you will be outraged enough to show up and protest at their meeting. Keep in mind we can always protest outside the library before September. All we need our TV cameras to show up. I know the announcement was in part timed due to the legislative decisions in Lansing on the budget, but I am also sure that the cowardly commissioners wanted to make this controversial decision now so they could hide for two months. They are also counting on us losing interest over the summer and being too busy. They just do not understand us, especially the genealogists among us. Nothing is going to stand between us and our ancestors. LET MY ANCESTORS GO, FREE THE BURTON HISTORICAL COLLECTION! Well that is enough rabble rousing for now. Have a good night everyone. We will prevail. JP John P. DuLong, Ph.D. Acadian and French Canadian Genealogy 959 Oxford Road Berkley, MI 48072-2011 USA (248) 541-2894 dulongj@habitant.org From dunn at bright.net Sat Jun 19 03:12:47 2004 From: dunn at bright.net (Michael and Carol Dunn) Date: Sat Jun 19 03:12:47 2004 Subject: [BHC] More Internal DPL Information on the Fee References: Message-ID: <006401c455e5$f9e8c5b0$691a8fd1@Michael> John, I do not live in Michigan. Are you saying that the state took away all state funding from the DPL? That's harsh, they are a major research library. This really is a clever move to get the people involved, and it sure seems to be working. I still think the Burton collection should move to it's own building, with adequate parking, like they have at the Marietta Library in Ohio: http://www.wcplib.lib.oh.us/LH&G.htm Carol Dunn WayneGenWeb CC http://www.rootsweb.com/~miwayne/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "John P. DuLong" To: Sent: Friday, June 18, 2004 9:58 PM Subject: [BHC] More Internal DPL Information on the Fee > Burton Historical Collection List > _______________________________________________ > > > Hello Folks, > > Below is an internal Detroit Public Library memo some kind person sent to > me. Thanks. > > Note they are already weakening and making an exception for students. > > I heard the annual fee announced on WDET today, I will try and get equal > time for our view point next week. > > Lastly, I understand that the newspapers will have articles on this issue > this weekend. Please keep an eye out for them. We should probably hold off > writing letters to the editors until the articles appear. I will send out a > reminder. > > JP > > ********** > > MEMORANDUM > > Date: June 17, 2004 > > To: All DPL Employees > > From: Nancy Skowronski, Director and CEO > > Subject: All sorts of things! > > > Library Card for Non-residents > > At its June 15, 2004 meeting, the Detroit Library Commission approved a new > charge for a non-resident library card effective August 1. This card, which > will cost $100 for one person or household per year, allows borrowing > privileges at all DPL agencies and access to all of DPL's special > collections. In other words, to use any of the special collections at Main > or at Skillman, a library card must be presented. This new policy exempts > students who attend Detroit schools and have a valid student ID from that > school. > > It is important to note that the term "resident " from now on only applies > to those Detroiters who are residents in the City. These customers will > continue to enjoy free access to our materials and/or collections. > Non-residents will now have to buy a non-resident library card to receive > these same privileges. > > New Library Card Application Forms, Policies, Fees and Fines > > The Service Issues Forum, Public Services Team, and the Executive Management > Team reviewed and modified the library card application form, policies, fees > and fines. The result is a condensed application form that is more > efficient and customer friendly. Directions for implementation will be > communicated from Public Services in the coming weeks > > State Funding > > This is a recap of email I have sent previously. > > Governor Granholm appropriated $1 million to DPL in her FY 05 budget. > > The House removed $500,000 from this appropriation and sent the > appropriations bill to the Senate. The Senate removed all money for DPL. > In addition it removed $1.5 million from a proposed digitization fund, > slated for libraries. (The House had not touched this line item.) > > Since the Senate bill revised the House bill, both bills have been referred > to a conference committee. No date has been announced for this committee > hearing. > Stay tuned. > > Pending Library Cooperative Legislation > > At the suggestion of Senators Tom George and Hansen Clarke, DPL is pursuing > cooperative status from the Library of Michigan under PA 89. To date Senate > Bill 1277, sponsored by Senators George and Clarke, among others, and House > Bill HB 5977, sponsored by Representatives Ed Gaffney and Mary Waters, among > others, have been introduced for consideration. Both bills seek a technical > amendment to PA89 to lower the population requirement from 1 million to > 750,000 for a single library to be eligible as a cooperative. If you > recall, DPL lost $450,000 in state-aid revenue last year, when our coop, DAL > (Detroit Associated Libraries), was closed. > > I testified before the House of Representatives Committee on Local > Government and Public Policy on June 9th. The Committee voted 7-0 to > approve this bill. The hearing before the Senate Committee on Local, Urban > and State Issues has not been scheduled. If either bill is successful, DPL > will withdraw from the Library Network as a member. Stay tuned to this > issue also. > > Millage Campaign > > I am pleased to announce that the three chairs of the Millage Campaign > Committee for Detroit Public Library have been named. The co-chairs are: > Reverend Wendell Anthony, President of Detroit's NAACP; Ms. Betty Brooks, > Community Activist; and Ms. Frankie Darcell from WMXD - the Mix 92.3. > > By now, you each should have received information on upcoming staff focus > groups that will begin next week. In addition to focus groups for > customers, non-customers and Friends, a mail survey will be sent out soon to > customers. These focus groups and surveys will provide the Committee with > valuable information on perceptions and needs to be addressed by the library > system. > > Branch News > > The Commission approved a renovation review by the SmithGroup for the closed > Mark Twain Branch. You will remember that the SmithGroup was the > architectural firm that renovated the Skillman branch. This review will > help determine costs and a timeline for renovation consideration of this > branch. > > Campbell Branch > > I am pleased to announce that Campbell Branch will be reopened in 2005 in a > brand new location. Library Commission approved the lease of property in > Southwest Detroit, which will be the new home for Campbell Branch. The > property slated for Campbell Branch is located at Vernor and Lawndale and is > a part of the "Lawndale Station Development Project," a $20 million historic > commercial-residential renovation project in Southwest Detroit. > > ********** > > John P. DuLong, Ph.D. > Acadian and French Canadian Genealogy > 959 Oxford Road > Berkley, MI 48072-2011 > USA > (248) 541-2894 > dulongj@habitant.org > > > _______________________________________________ > BHC mailing list > BHC@habitant.org > http://habitant.org/mailman/listinfo/bhc_habitant.org > From tischronova at juno.com Sat Jun 19 15:09:07 2004 From: tischronova at juno.com (Frank V. Castronova) Date: Sat Jun 19 15:10:01 2004 Subject: [BHC] Fees for non-resident employees? Message-ID: <20040619.180908.324.7.tischronova@juno.com> Good Saturday afternoon, all. Just a bit of cynicism coming from me after being so upset about the prospect of paying a fee to check out DPL books and use special collections: Will non-Detroit residents who work for the DPL need to pay a fee to check out books in the library system for which they work? Frank Castronova Ferndale, Mich. From dulongj at habitant.org Sat Jun 19 15:37:09 2004 From: dulongj at habitant.org (John P. DuLong) Date: Sat Jun 19 15:35:37 2004 Subject: [BHC] Fees for non-resident employees? In-Reply-To: <20040619.180908.324.7.tischronova@juno.com> Message-ID: Frank V. Castronova [mailto:tischronova@juno.com] wrote: >Will non-Detroit residents who work for the DPL need to pay a fee to >check out books in the library system for which they work? Good question. Also, what about retired DPL employees living outside of Detroit, will they have to pay? (This was asked of me by a retired DPL employee.) Clearly, the morons on the library commission have not considered a quarter (if any) of the questions we have been raising. JP John P. DuLong, Ph.D. Acadian and French Canadian Genealogy 959 Oxford Road Berkley, MI 48072-2011 USA (248) 541-2894 dulongj@habitant.org From mwlelacheur at yahoo.com Mon Jun 21 14:08:40 2004 From: mwlelacheur at yahoo.com (Maureen LeLacheur) Date: Mon Jun 21 14:08:31 2004 Subject: [BHC] How does Michicard fit into the fee charges? Message-ID: <20040621210840.23028.qmail@web14804.mail.yahoo.com> How does Michicard fit into the fee charges? Check out the information about Michicard access on the HAL site of Michigan.gov. The DPL has been a Michicard library. My husband and I have checked books out of lots of suburban libraries with our Michicard stickers on the DPL card without payment. You all may want to pursue this tack. Perhaps the DPL is giving up its participation. Maureen W. LeLacheur Maureen W. LeLacheur 17355 Meyers Rd Detroit MI 48235-1424 313/342-8391 mwlelacheur@yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://aries.lunarpages.com/pipermail/bhc_habitant.org/attachments/20040621/f46795f8/attachment.htm From dulongj at habitant.org Mon Jun 21 16:54:18 2004 From: dulongj at habitant.org (John P. DuLong) Date: Mon Jun 21 16:52:43 2004 Subject: [BHC] Free Press Article: Call for Letters to the Editor Message-ID: Hello Folks, The Free Press did an article on the Detroit Public Library fee. You can view it at http://www.freep.com/news/locway/lib21_20040621.htm. It is interesting to notice the backpeddling in this article. The library administration is now telling us that both Detroit students and Detroit businesses will not be charged the fee. Also, they are considering a lower one time fee. Lastly, they might let us use the books in the reading room (which does us very little good since over two thirds of the Burton Historical Collection is in the closed stacks). Looks like they are already starting to waffle. Wonder if they have been reading our comments and questions that we have been posing. The theme of the article is that the generosity is over, this is indeed true. If the Detroit Public Library is going to charge us to use a public collection, then why should we continue to be generous to the library with our donations? Clearly, not all 150,000 non-resident patrons will pay the $100 fee. I strongly suspect that at most a thousand people will pay the fee. Rather then pulling in $15 million, which I think even the library administrators realized was unreal, they will be lucky to get $100,000 per year. Now how much do you think the non-residents of Detroit donate to the library per year? More than $100,000 I believe. I know that the majority of the members of the Friends of the Detroit Public Library are suburbanites. The removal of state funding to support the Detroit Public Library is deplorable. We have asked our legislators not to reduce this state funding, but only to better supervise the spending of these monies to insure they are not mismanaged. Now the library is going to punish the very people who have supported it financially in the past and are the most likely to lobby for it in Lansing. This is outrageous. This will only further serve to divide Detroiters and non-Detroiters and exclude more suburbanites from one of the city's institutions. Please write a letter to the Detroit Free Press editor and protest the imposition of an access fee. Explain in your letter that you will no longer make donations to the library and that your use of the library will be curtailed. Let it be known that you regret the decision of the legislator to abandon what is a state resource, but also make it clear that imposing an access fee, compared to a borrowing fee, is not a common practice even in these tight financial times. You can email your letters to the editors to letters@freepress.com. The newspaper requests that: "Please put the letter in text of the E-mail, not as an attachment. All writers must provide full name, full home address and day and evening telephone numbers. Letters should be 200 words or less and are subject to editing. Anonymous letters, letters to third parties and letters to other publications will not be considered." We have had our letters published in the past, we can do this again, take your anger out by writing. Please do it today. Thank you. Regards, JP John P. DuLong, Ph.D. Acadian and French Canadian Genealogy 959 Oxford Road Berkley, MI 48072-2011 (248) 541-2894 http://habitant.org From dulongj at habitant.org Mon Jun 21 17:04:26 2004 From: dulongj at habitant.org (John P. DuLong) Date: Mon Jun 21 17:02:51 2004 Subject: [BHC] FW: Fee for Using the Burton Historical Collection Message-ID: Here is a copy of my email to the Detroit Free Press. Please send them an email today. Take action now. JP -----Original Message----- From: John P. DuLong [mailto:dulongj@habitant.org] Sent: Monday, June 21, 2004 7:59 PM To: letters@freepress.com Subject: Fee for Using the Burton Historical Collection The loss of state funding to support the Detroit Public Library is indeed dreadful, and the resulting decision to charge a fee for borrowing books by non-Detroiters is understandable. However, imposing a fee on non-Detroiters to use the Burton Historical Collection is punitive and ill advised. When Mr. Burton donated his collection and endowed it he intended it to be open to the people of Michigan and surrounding states and not just Detroiters. Most of the users of this collection are non-Detroiters and they have supported the collection for decades with donations of funds and historical materials. Now people will have to pay to view materials their parents and grandparents donated to the Burton. This fee is a slap in their face. Why should they continue to generously support a library that would rather alienate them than to acknowledge their valuable contribution to one of the state's best historical collections? The library will make very little money from these fees but will generate a lot of ill will and bad publicity for itself and the city. John P. DuLong, Ph.D. Acadian and French Canadian Genealogy 959 Oxford Road Berkley, MI 48072-2011 USA (248) 541-2894 dulongj@habitant.org From willyb97 at comcast.net Mon Jun 21 17:37:40 2004 From: willyb97 at comcast.net (Bill & Peggy Youngs) Date: Mon Jun 21 17:39:17 2004 Subject: [BHC] FW: Fee for Using the Burton Historical Collection References: Message-ID: <000601c457f1$219711e0$6500a8c0@hp> Did anyone see on the evening news where the City of Detroit is passing on to the Detroit Public Library nearly $4 million dollars? Evidently this money is from back taxes being collected. With this money in their hands, I wonder if they will still need to impose the non-resident fees? Or will they fritter away this money like they have in the past? Guess only time will tell. Peggy Youngs Grand Blanc, MI From willyb97 at comcast.net Tue Jun 22 04:33:23 2004 From: willyb97 at comcast.net (Bill & Peggy Youngs) Date: Tue Jun 22 04:35:02 2004 Subject: [BHC] Fee for Using the Burton Historical Collection References: Message-ID: <000701c4584c$baa5bfc0$6500a8c0@hp> I've been looking at the newspaper and TV websites and can find no mention of this. It didn't rate much TV coverage either (I saw it on WXYZ), coming late in the newscast. They mentioned that the DPL was going to receive about $3.78 million and the Detroit Public Schools were to get a large chunk of money as well. I'll keep looking and will let you know if I find any mention of this online. Peggy Youngs ----- Original Message ----- From: "John P. DuLong" To: "Bill & Peggy Youngs" Sent: Monday, June 21, 2004 9:04 PM Subject: RE: [BHC] FW: Fee for Using the Burton Historical Collection > > Hello Peggy, > > This is a very interesting development. Is the article describing this bail > out online anywhere? I would like to share it with the group. > > JP > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill & Peggy Youngs [mailto:willyb97@comcast.net] > Sent: Monday, June 21, 2004 8:38 PM > To: bhc@habitant.org > Subject: Re: [BHC] FW: Fee for Using the Burton Historical Collection > > > Burton Historical Collection List > _______________________________________________ > > > Did anyone see on the evening news where the City of Detroit is passing on > to the Detroit Public Library nearly $4 million dollars? Evidently this > money is from back taxes being collected. With this money in their hands, I > wonder if they will still need to impose the non-resident fees? Or will > they fritter away this money like they have in the past? Guess only time > will tell. > > Peggy Youngs > Grand Blanc, MI > > > _______________________________________________ > BHC mailing list > BHC@habitant.org > http://habitant.org/mailman/listinfo/bhc_habitant.org > > From willyb97 at comcast.net Tue Jun 22 07:30:36 2004 From: willyb97 at comcast.net (Bill & Peggy Youngs) Date: Tue Jun 22 07:32:15 2004 Subject: [BHC] Fee for Using the Burton Historical Collection References: <20040622133219.88876.qmail@web81401.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000801c45865$7c42a4a0$6500a8c0@hp> Hi Bob, Thanks for the info, but this is not what I was referring to. There was a very small new story on Channel 7 (WXYZ in Detroit) last evening during which was stated that the City of Detroit was turning over to the DPL and Detroit Public Schools millions of dollars collected from delinquent taxpayers. It was late in the newscast and the story couldn't have run more than 30-45 seconds. I have no idea whether it was reported on any of the other news broadcasts, or whether it appears in the Detroit News or Free Press. If anyone finds mention of it, please post! Peggy Youngs ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Cosgrove To: Bill & Peggy Youngs Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2004 9:32 AM Subject: Re: [BHC] Fee for Using the Burton Historical Collection Peggy, It appeared in the Monday morning Detroit Free Press the local history section B under the title "Detroit's library to make some users pay." You probably can find it by going to www.freep.com and seaching for the title. I believe it may have also appeared in yesterday's The Detroit News, but I haven't seen that paper. As John DuLong suggests, a letter to the editor at the newspapers will help make the media and the public aware of this issue. In the past, the Library Commission, who answers to neither the public nor the mayor - if I'm correct, they're appointed by the Detroit Board of Education - has modified its position on public outcry. Bob Cosgrove -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/bhc_habitant.org/attachments/20040622/67dba1e0/attachment.htm From cjensen at mipolonia.net Tue Jun 22 08:25:39 2004 From: cjensen at mipolonia.net (cjensen) Date: Tue Jun 22 08:26:02 2004 Subject: [BHC] Fw: Fee to Use the Burton/ Detroit Archdiocese Archives Message-ID: <021a01c4586d$2fd1e1a0$6501a8c0@EightFive> To: Detroit Archdiocese Archives ----- Original Message ----- From: "cjensen" To: Cc: Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2004 11:19 AM Subject: Fee to Use the Burton > I have sent this message to the Detroit Free Press. I think it is disturbing > and punitive to require a 100.00 payment to be able to access the microfilms > of the older Detroit Roman Catholic records. I m sure this was not the > diocese's intent. I urge the archives to ask the library to recend the > pending fee. If it is not receded I urge the Detroit Archdiocese Archives > to find a new user friendly location for the collection. > > > > Respectfully, > Ceil Wendt Jensen > > 450 Apple Hill Lane > > Rochester Hills, Michigan 48306 > *born and raised in Detroit > > > > Letter to the Editor: Fee to use the Burton Historical Collection > > > > I urge The Detroit Public Library to explore other options to generate > revenue during these tight financial times. > > > > The proposed Aug. 1st fee of $100.00 to use the Burton Collection only > further serves to divide Detroiters and non-Detroiters and exclude more > suburbanites from one of the city's institutions. > > > > It is my understanding that the Archdiocese of Detroit has an agreement with > the Burton to be the only library holding the older metro Detroit Roman > Catholic Church records on microfilm. I have accessed them numerous times > and am required to sign a statement of use for each session. I am contacting > the Archdiocese to see if they agree with the fee of 100.00 and urge them to > place the microfilms at a new user friendly location. Regional genealogists > feel welcome at local Family History Centers, the Library of Michigan in > Lansing and the Allen County Public Library in Fort Wayne, IN. > > > > Cecile Marie Wendt Jensen, CGRS* > > Michigan Polonia > > http://mipolonia.net > > > > *CGRS, Certified Genealogical Records Specialist > From cjensen at mipolonia.net Tue Jun 22 08:07:57 2004 From: cjensen at mipolonia.net (cjensen) Date: Tue Jun 22 08:58:05 2004 Subject: [BHC] Fee to use the Burton Historical Collection Message-ID: <01e101c4586a$b600a610$6501a8c0@EightFive> Letter to the Editor: Fee to use the Burton Historical Collection I urge The Detroit Public Library to explore other options to generate revenue during these tight financial times. The proposed Aug. 1st fee of $100.00 to use the Burton Collection only further serves to divide Detroiters and non-Detroiters and exclude more suburbanites from one of the city's institutions. It is my understanding that the Archdiocese of Detroit has an agreement with the Burton to be the only library holding the older metro Detroit Roman Catholic Church records on microfilm. I have accessed them numerous times and am required to sign a statement of use for each session. I am contacting the Archdiocese to see if they agree with the fee of 100.00 and urge them to place the microfilms at a new user friendly location. Regional genealogists feel welcome at local Family History Centers, the Library of Michigan in Lansing and the Allen County Public Library in Fort Wayne, IN. Cecile Marie Wendt Jensen, CGRS* Michigan Polonia http://mipolonia.net *CGRS, Certified Genealogical Records Specialist -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/bhc_habitant.org/attachments/20040622/a1ab4980/attachment.htm From dulongj at habitant.org Tue Jun 22 09:13:53 2004 From: dulongj at habitant.org (John P. DuLong) Date: Tue Jun 22 09:13:55 2004 Subject: [BHC] Boy are You People Energized Message-ID: <1087920833.40d85ac1533d2@login.aries.lunarpages.com> Wow, I am impressed! Welcome aboard to all the new Advocates. We are getting a steady stream of people joining our list since the usage fee was announced. This is the most growth I have seen on the BHC list since we started back in 2000. Clearly, you folks are upset with the usage fee. Keep encouraging your friends and family to join us. Make sure you mention this issue at your society meetings and encourage your members to join us. The more numbers we have the more impact we can have. Please do not forget to write a letter to the Detroit Free Press editor about the usage fees. Your input is necessary. Do not just get mad, take action! You can email your letters to the editor at freepress.com. The newspaper requests that: "Please put the letter in text of the E-mail, not as an attachment. All writers must provide full name, full home address and day and evening telephone numbers. Letters should be 200 words or less and are subject to editing. Anonymous letters, letters to third parties and letters to other publications will not be considered." It would be grand if you would email me a copy of your letter so I can follow our progress and keep a tab on your views and concerns. My email is dulongj@habitant.org Many of you have already sent me copies of your letters and I have enjoyed reading them. Lastly, for those of you are just joining us, you can visit the archives of our past postings at http://habitant.org/pipermail/bhc_habitant.org/ I want to thank all of you, old and new Advocates, for your dedication in the struggle to preserve and protect the Burton Historical Collection. JP John P. DuLong, Ph.D. Acadian and French Canadian Genealogy 959 Oxford Road Berkley, MI 48072-2011 (248) 541-2894 http://habitant.org From willyb97 at comcast.net Tue Jun 22 09:26:49 2004 From: willyb97 at comcast.net (Bill & Peggy Youngs) Date: Tue Jun 22 09:28:37 2004 Subject: [BHC] Money for DPL Message-ID: <001401c45875$b85df600$6500a8c0@hp> Hi everyone, You can see the news story on WXYZ last night by going to their website http://www.wxyz.com. Click on Monday under "Video Archive" on the right of the screen, then click on 5-6pm. The story was during the first half hour of the broadcast. The money is coming from Wayne County and is going to the City of Detroit, Detroit Public Schools, and DPL for a total of $40 million. The story is only about 20 seconds long, so take care not to miss it. Peggy Youngs -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/bhc_habitant.org/attachments/20040622/ca2f7439/attachment.htm From georgia at corpsie.com Tue Jun 22 16:32:16 2004 From: georgia at corpsie.com (Georgia Clark) Date: Tue Jun 22 16:31:51 2004 Subject: [BHC] Archdiocese of Detroit Message-ID: <40D8C17F.69858547@corpsie.com> Has anyone contacted the Archdiocese of Detroit regarding the fee other than myself? The records are supposed to be free for research according to Roman Godzak. Maybe the Church can put some pressure on if we complain to them. The number that I have for the archivist, Mr. Roman Godzak is: (313) 237-5846 FAX (313) 237-5791 From georgia at corpsie.com Tue Jun 22 16:50:46 2004 From: georgia at corpsie.com (Georgia Clark) Date: Tue Jun 22 16:50:28 2004 Subject: [BHC] Sen. Toy's response to my email re: BHC fees Message-ID: <40D8C5D6.98D97305@corpsie.com> This is the response that I received from Senator Toy. -------- Original Message -------- From: Subject: Letter to Senator Toy To: June 22, 2004 Dear Ms. Clark, Thank you for contacting my office recently regarding the Detroit Public Library?s proposal to begin collection fees for viewing of its special collections. It is indeed helpful when thoughtful citizens contact their elected representatives, especially when they have policy concerns. You are correct, it is my understanding that a plan is in the works to charge non-residents of the City a fee, of possibly as much as $100.00, to obtain a library card to check out books or view special collections. At this point, I believe that the specifics are being worked out, and there may be some provisions added to provide for a lower fee for one-time use of special collections, or perhaps free use without a librarian?s assistance. You are also correct that tax money has been going to support this institution, and that it has not been well managed. An audit of the Detroit Public Library revealed gross negligence in monitoring the use of library funds. For your information, in the version of the budget recently passed by the Senate, the additional funding that the Detroit Public Library had been receiving above and beyond its standard funding was removed and redistributed among all libraries in the state. Once again, I appreciate you taking the time to contact my office. Please help me make Michigan a better place to live by continuing to share your thoughts and concerns with me. I look forward to hearing from you again, or seeing you in the district soon. All the Best, Laura M. Toy State Senator 6th District LMT:glw From dulongj at habitant.org Wed Jun 23 17:03:13 2004 From: dulongj at habitant.org (John P. DuLong) Date: Wed Jun 23 17:01:49 2004 Subject: [BHC] Another Success for the Advocates Message-ID: Folks, You have done it again. We had nine of our letters printed in the Detroit Free Press today! Point your browser to http://www.freep.com/voices/letters/elib23_20040623.htm. This is very impressive. It is the largest number of letters printed yet in any of our campaigns and this is the fastest that our letters have appeared after an article. Great job everyone! Please do not be disappointed if your letter was not printed, mine was not, but the more people that write the more likely we are to get any of our letters printed. The goal is always to get our position before the general public. In that sense, we scored 100 percent. Be prepared for some more letter writing campaigns, which we seem to do so well. Also, I am considering a petition drive. As always I remain open to any other ideas. Do you have a suggestion for how we should protest the usage fee? Meanwhile, if you still want to write a protest letter, then send an email to Nancy Skowronski, Director of the Detroit Public Library. Her email address is nskowronski@detroit.lib.mi.us. For those of you who would prefer to talk withher, you can call her at (313) 833-3997. If your letter to the editor did not get printed, or if it did and it was edited too much for your taste, then what the heck, send Ms. Skowronski your letter as an email. Keep spreading the word. You are also doing a wonderful job on that as evidenced by all the new subscriptions to our BHC List. Thanks again for your support and interest. JP John P. DuLong, Ph.D. Acadian and French Canadian Genealogy 959 Oxford Road Berkley, MI 48072-2011 (248) 541-2894 http://habitant.org From georgia at corpsie.com Thu Jun 24 11:26:38 2004 From: georgia at corpsie.com (Georgia Clark) Date: Thu Jun 24 11:26:27 2004 Subject: [BHC] Detroit Library Fee and Michicard Message-ID: <40DB1CDE.D28ADC9E@corpsie.com> Dear List Members, Yesterday I left a message for Nancy Skowronski regarding the use of the Michicard. Today Rose who works for her returned my call with the information that one can still use the Michicard for taking out books without charge but it won't get one into the special collections. And, apparently, I will be able to enter the library building if I were to have an overwhelming urge to use their rest rooms as I stroll down Woodward Avenue. I asked if there were going to be security personnel stationed at the various collections to prevent anyone from slipping in but they have not discussed the details yet. It would seem to be a costly measure to have to pay personnel to check if you have paid the fee or not. There would be the cost of the wages, FICA, workmen's comp. insurance, medical insurance, unemployment taxes both Federal and State, pension or 403s, cafeteria benefits, training to become a security person, weapons training, extra parking facilities for the additional employees not to mention liability insurance in case of a disgruntled patron being manhandled by the security staff-you know how those octogenarians can get. She did question me regarding my telling her that I wouldn't mind a small donation each time I used the library as long as that money went only to the Burton Collection to help pay for those things which cannot be charged to the Clarence Burton endowment (is that the right term?). Do you think this is a huge left-wing conspiracy to get us to pay a fee each time one of the collections is used. That the $100.00 annual fee was a trial balloon. Or am I getting paranoid in my old age. Free Clarence Burton and hell no, I won't go (to the Burton if there is a charge). Yours, Georgia Clark From dulongj at habitant.org Thu Jun 24 16:46:41 2004 From: dulongj at habitant.org (John P. DuLong) Date: Thu Jun 24 16:45:16 2004 Subject: [BHC] Is the Usage Fee Constitutional? Message-ID: Hello Folks, Let me start by thanking a local public librarian for suggesting that I look at the Attorney General?s opinions. Great tip. You are amazing. Thanks. The Attorney General of Michigan has two rulings regarding libraries and the issue of access and fees. To read these opinions please point your browsers to: http://www.ag.state.mi.us/opinion/datafiles/1980s/op05739.htm http://www.ag.state.mi.us/opinion/datafiles/1980s/op06188.htm I must warn you that these are not light reading. I will try to summarize them for you. Opinion 5739 says that ?All residents of the State of Michigan are entitled to use the public libraries of this state subject to reasonable regulations of the library.? I did not know it before I had read this document, but the Michigan state constitution deals with our right to access public libraries. The relevant part of the 1963 constitution, art. 8, sec. 9, states: ?The legislature shall provide by law for the establishment and support of public libraries which shall be available to all residents of the state under regulations adopted by the governing bodies thereof.? This opinion makes it clear that you can use a public library anywhere in the state and would appear to be in our favor. However, this opinion was done in 1980 and the next ruling impacts it. Opinion 6188 was done in 1983 and says that a borrowing fee, if not excessive, is a reasonable regulation. If it is excessive, then it constitutes a tax and is illegal. It says nothing about a usage fee, particularly a usage fee for special collections. Clearly, the Michigan state constitution guarantees all its citizens the right to access public libraries. The problem comes up with how you interpret the idea of reasonable regulations. A borrowing fee is reasonable. However, a usage fee, since it attacks the very concept of access, is most likely not reasonable. I think we can easily build a fairly persuasive argument that a usage fee defeats the whole purpose of art. 8, sec. 9 and is thus unconstitutional. If this is indeed the case, then the usage fee is moot and must be rescinded. Now you and I can agree that a usage fee, even for special collections, is unconstitutional, but this may not necessarily be how the Attorney General would finally rule on it. Although there is a danger that the Attorney General might disagree with us, I think it is wise and prudent to ask for his opinion. If his opinion is that a usage fee is unconstitutional, then we have won. If his opinion is that it is constitutional, then we have lost a battle, not the war. It will only mean that we have to struggle longer and use our other valid arguments to oppose the usage fee. (Perhaps we could argue that the usage fee is excessive, and thus a tax!) I strongly suspect that the Detroit Library Commission and the library administration did not take into account the constitutionality of a usage fee as something that damages access. They probably did not have the foresight to ask Mr. Mike Cox, the current Attorney General, for his opinion. Therefore, I decided, after consulting with others, that I would approach my state senator, Shirley Johnson, and ask her to submit a request to Mr. Cox for his opinion on this issue. Her assistant warned me that it if she decides to submit this issue that it would most likely take several months for Mr. Cox to respond with his opinion. I have not yet heard back from Sen. Johnson, but it was only a few days ago that I approached her. We should give her a few more days to respond. But if she is hesitant to ask Mr. Cox, then I think we will have to have another letter writing campaign to her, and our other legislators, asking them to get Mr. Cox?s opinion. It would be premature to start writing letters now, but I just wanted you to be prepared to do so if it becomes necessary. We might also want to write to Mr. Cox, after an official request for his opinion is submitted, to ask that he hasten his ruling. I would also hope that we would be able to submit our own statement laying out our concerns on this issue to him before he makes a ruling. Meanwhile, I think our first act of protest should be on 1 August 2004. I only need about ten non-Detroiter volunteers. All you have to do is go to the Burton reference desk and ask for a book from the stacks. I will be there to record your name, address, telephone number, email, and the book you want, the time, and the response you are given when they refuse you. We can then use this information to document the violation of your constitutional rights in case this ever has to go to court. Please let me know via email if you are willing to be one of the Burton ten. For any of you library administrators reading the list, I believe this is check, your turn. JP John P. DuLong, Ph.D. Acadian and French Canadian Genealogy 959 Oxford Road Berkley, MI 48072-2011 USA (248) 541-2894 dulongj@habitant.org From dulongj at habitant.org Thu Jun 24 17:22:29 2004 From: dulongj at habitant.org (John P. DuLong) Date: Thu Jun 24 17:21:02 2004 Subject: [BHC] August 1st is a Sunday Message-ID: I want to thank the people who are already stepping forward to volunteer as a protester. They have all pointed out to me that the 1 August is a Sunday. So I suggest we do this protest on 7 August 2004, which is a Saturday. And after the protest, which should not take to long, we can go to Circa for a beer and hamburger. JP John P. DuLong, Ph.D. Acadian and French Canadian Genealogy 959 Oxford Road Berkley, MI 48072-2011 USA (248) 541-2894 dulongj@habitant.org From dulongj at habitant.org Thu Jun 24 17:52:56 2004 From: dulongj at habitant.org (John P. DuLong) Date: Thu Jun 24 17:51:28 2004 Subject: [BHC] Burton Usage Up Message-ID: By the way, I have learned that usage of the Burton Historical Collection has shot up. Looks like the word is out and people are trying to get their research done before 1 August 2004. Good idea. Just please be patient with the staff. The Burton is chronically understaffed and they can only help so many people at one time. Enjoy it while you can. JP John P. DuLong, Ph.D. Acadian and French Canadian Genealogy 959 Oxford Road Berkley, MI 48072-2011 USA (248) 541-2894 dulongj@habitant.org From ehr09 at yahoo.com Fri Jun 25 13:14:59 2004 From: ehr09 at yahoo.com (M Ehr) Date: Fri Jun 25 13:14:58 2004 Subject: [BHC] Family Tree Magazine newsletter Message-ID: <20040625201459.81526.qmail@web21207.mail.yahoo.com> Today's issue of the Family Tree Magazine e-newsletter mentions the new DPL fee. http://tinyurl.com/2dgh7 (full link is http://net.fwpublications.com/newsletters/NewsletterArchive/Family_Tree_Magazine_E-Mail_Update/6_24_2004.htm#2) I was a little surprised that there was no real editorial comment on the policy, as the newsletter has offered opinions on controversial moves in the past. Imnstead, it's more of a regurgitation of some of the info in the press release - including the misleading mirroring-similar-fees bit. I did send an email to the editor thanking her for publicizing this change, and emphasizing the general objection to a public library charging for on-site use of its collections. Glad to know this group is working to see what we can do about this issue. With 150 years of my maternal lineage in Detroit, the loss of access to the Burton will be a real blow to me, and I can't yet justify the $100 fee when that could buy me vital records and gas to drive to Lansing! Meg Ehr Royal Oak, MI __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From ehr09 at yahoo.com Fri Jun 25 13:28:14 2004 From: ehr09 at yahoo.com (M Ehr) Date: Fri Jun 25 13:28:11 2004 Subject: [BHC] Re: Detroit Library Fee and Michicard Message-ID: <20040625202814.671.qmail@web21202.mail.yahoo.com> Georgia, based on the library's release of info about the policy before they've formulated a plan for implementation, and especially based on the timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this is a calculated move to stir up the masses and get us to pester our legislators to restore funding. Why else would they single out the special collections, which they know have heavy non-resident support, while continuing to participate in MichiCard? As far as I've been able to determine, MichiCard participation is completely optional, and the library doesn't receive any funds for participating. As so many of us are eligible for MichiCard, it seems unlikely that the DPL will ever get many non-residents to pay a $100 borrowers fee. It seems more likely that the fee announcement was geared directly toward the non-resident users of the Burton. Frankly, I'd find a way to come up with the $100 if it was going directly to support the Burton. If the fees were used exclusively to purchase more materials, upgrade the microfilm readers and printers, and otherwise improve the collections and service, I'd eventually get that $100 back through an improved user experience. But I have no intention of scraping together $100 so the library can put it in the general fund and mis-spend it again. Meg Ehr Royal Oak, MI __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dulongj at habitant.org Fri Jun 25 21:07:50 2004 From: dulongj at habitant.org (John P. DuLong) Date: Fri Jun 25 21:06:23 2004 Subject: [BHC] Florida Junket Message-ID: OK image this situation, you are the administrator of a public library in sever financial straits, you face a funding cut from the state, and a crucial local millage, what do you do? The answer is so simple, you go to Disney World in beautiful scenic Orlando, Florida! It seems the reason Ms. Skowronski and the other top administrators are not around to answer questions about the imposed usage fee is that they are at the American Library Association (ALA) conference in Orlando, 24-30 June 2004. Now don't get me wrong. I think that when you budget is fine, your library is not trying to recover from a financial scandal, and you are not facing financial doom that top administrators and librarians should attend the American Library Association. Unfortunately, I have never attended one of their meetings, but I have always heard them praised as a great place to learn and exchange ideas. Also, I understand that these trips were probably scheduled well in advance of the state funding decision. But canceling them would probably be cheaper than taking them. I wonder how many other librarians in the state had to cancel attending the ALA conference this year because of the general financial troubles facing all libraries in Michigan? This sure does not give me a warm feeling about being forced to spend $100 of my hard earned money so that some administrators I do not place much confidence in can enjoy the Florida sunshine. Or how about your Detroiters who face the millage decision in November, what do you think about this? What say I submit another Freedom of Information Act request in a few weeks to see how much this little outing cost us? It would be interesting to learn if any of the commissioners also went on this junket. JP John P. DuLong, Ph.D. Acadian and French Canadian Genealogy 959 Oxford Road Berkley, MI 48072-2011 (248) 541-2894 http://habitant.org From ChristieTrapp at aol.com Fri Jun 25 21:12:03 2004 From: ChristieTrapp at aol.com (ChristieTrapp@aol.com) Date: Fri Jun 25 21:12:07 2004 Subject: [BHC] Florida Junket Message-ID: <27.5b99ce67.2e0e5193@aol.com> I think the Freedom of Information solution is a great one! Is there anyway of getting the meeting minutes that discussed the $100 fee while you are at it? Christie Trapp Fairfield, CA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/bhc_habitant.org/attachments/20040626/bc7b4d51/attachment.htm From dulongj at habitant.org Sat Jun 26 17:28:47 2004 From: dulongj at habitant.org (John P. DuLong) Date: Sat Jun 26 17:27:19 2004 Subject: [BHC] Florida Junket In-Reply-To: <20040626120637.M27958@llcoop.org> Message-ID: Folks, I heard from several librarians that I should not pick on the Detroit Public Librarians for attending the American Library Association (ALA) meeting. They make some valid points about the value of the meetings, the importance of have the Detroit Public Librarians involved in professional activities, that it is nearly impossible to cancel travel arrangements at a late date, and that it might be the case that the administrators are paying for attending the meeting on their own. OK, sorry to upset librarians, and I hear what you are saying. I never intended to say anything negative about the ALA. It is a great group and I read their online news every week. It is my hope that someday I will be able to attend an ALA meeting. (By the way, travel at my place of employment was dramatically curtailed several years ago because of the financial crisis in health care. I have not done any business travel in over five years.) Please understand why I raised a red flag. Based on data I have collected in the past through the Freedom of Information Art the administrators and commissioners who traveled to conventions were reimbursed through a gift fund. In fact, if you looked through the hundreds of receipts I have seen, and you were not told that they were from a library, then you would think the gift fund was simply a travel and entertainment fund for some corporate executives (mostly Dr. Wheeler). (If I recall correctly, staff librarians were only given a small stipend that did not cover nearly enough of their costs to attend meetings.) The mishandling of travel reimbursement was one of the things the Detroit Auditor General criticized about the Detroit Public Library. If the gift fund is being tapped for this trip and all expenses are being paid for, then I think we patrons have a right to ask why this money should be spent during a financial crisis? If the Grand Rapids Public Library can suspend travel during tight times, then why should not the Detroit Public Library take the same approach? It would be wonderful if the Detroit Public Library administrators would come back enlightened from the meetings and start cooperative well with other libraries and listening to their patrons, but pardon me if I remain skeptical. When times are good, I am all for administrators and librarians attending ALA and any other professional meetings. As one of the librarians pointed out, this discussion is not really on target, so let us ignore this Florida travel for now. We should keep focused on the usage fee. Regards, JP John P. DuLong, Ph.D. Acadian and French Canadian Genealogy 959 Oxford Road Berkley, MI 48072-2011 USA (248) 541-2894 dulongj@habitant.org From dulongj at habitant.org Sat Jun 26 18:08:36 2004 From: dulongj at habitant.org (John P. DuLong) Date: Sat Jun 26 18:07:05 2004 Subject: [BHC] FOIA Request and Friends of the BHC Resignation Message-ID: Folks, I forgot to mention that last Monday I submitted a Freedom of Information Act request to the Detroit Public Library. In it I asked for (1) the last three audits of the Burton Endowment Fund, (2) any and all documents, etc., dealing with the decision to impose a usage fee, (3) copies of the past minutes of the Detroit Library Commission, and (4) a subscription to new minutes. I will let you know what I learn from this request after I receive the documents. I am especially curious to see if the minutes of the 15 June 2004 meeting reveal if the usage fee vote was unanimous. I wonder if there were any dissenters on the Detroit Library Commission. Also on Monday I stepped down from the Board of the Friends of the Burton Historical Collection. To avoid confusion for the new people. The Friends of the Burton Historical Collection is not the same as the rag-tag Advocates for the Burton Historical Collection. The latter is the protest group that runs this list. The former was created by the Friends of the Detroit Public Library to better support the Burton Historical Collection. I think it is a great idea and I wish this board the best of luck. However, I had to step down because it would be awkward for them and me to remain on the board while I fight the imposition of a usage fee. Also, I made it clear in my resignation letter that I was resigning in protest of the usage fee. Take care everyone and have a good weekend. JP John P. DuLong, Ph.D. Acadian and French Canadian Genealogy 959 Oxford Road Berkley, MI 48072-2011 USA (248) 541-2894 dulongj@habitant.org From aa0912 at wayne.edu Sun Jun 27 06:10:52 2004 From: aa0912 at wayne.edu (Charles K. Hyde) Date: Sun Jun 27 06:05:41 2004 Subject: [BHC] THE "RAG-TAG" ADVOCATES FOR THE BURTON COLLECTION? Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040627085357.009f7450@mail.wayne.edu> John: I deeply resemble your characterization of the Burton Advocates as a "rag-tag" group. The fattest dictionary I own defines "rag-tag" as follows: "The riffraff. The rabble." Looking further, "riffraff" is defined as "the worthless or disreputable element of society" and "rabble" is defined as "disorderly crowd, mob" and "the lower classes." I am deeply hurt by this characterization of our mighty group of brave warriors. We are hardly disreputable or worthless and we have seldom acted as a disorderly crowd, to my knowledge. I should also add that we are NOT terrorists. If library patrons are members of "the lower classes," then I guess we deserve that label. John, I think you owe all of us a sincere apology for this insult. Herr Professor Charles K. Hyde, Ph.D From willyb97 at comcast.net Sun Jun 27 06:12:12 2004 From: willyb97 at comcast.net (Bill & Peggy Youngs) Date: Sun Jun 27 06:13:49 2004 Subject: [BHC] THE "RAG-TAG" ADVOCATES FOR THE BURTON COLLECTION? References: <5.1.0.14.2.20040627085357.009f7450@mail.wayne.edu> Message-ID: <000401c45c48$5c984420$6500a8c0@hp> Charles, But wouldn't you define us as rabble rousers? Even though we do not condone violence, we are people "who try to arouse people to [violent] action by appealing to their emotions". I would! I'm sure John meant nothing disrespectful by using the term, just a way of referring to us as a loosely-knit group. Peggy Youngs ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles K. Hyde" To: Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2004 9:10 AM Subject: [BHC] THE "RAG-TAG" ADVOCATES FOR THE BURTON COLLECTION? > Burton Historical Collection List > _______________________________________________ > > > John: > > I deeply resemble your characterization of the Burton Advocates as a > "rag-tag" group. > > The fattest dictionary I own defines "rag-tag" as follows: "The > riffraff. The rabble." > > Looking further, "riffraff" is defined as "the worthless or disreputable > element of society" and "rabble" is defined as "disorderly > crowd, mob" and "the lower classes." > > I am deeply hurt by this characterization of our mighty group of brave > warriors. We are hardly disreputable or worthless and we have seldom > acted as a disorderly crowd, to my knowledge. I should also add that we > are NOT terrorists. If library patrons are members of "the lower > classes," then I guess we deserve that label. > > John, I think you owe all of us a sincere apology for this insult. > > > Herr Professor Charles K. Hyde, Ph.D > > > _______________________________________________ > BHC mailing list > BHC@habitant.org > http://habitant.org/mailman/listinfo/bhc_habitant.org From mjlaforest at earthlink.net Sat Jun 26 22:24:08 2004 From: mjlaforest at earthlink.net (Michael LaForest) Date: Sun Jun 27 10:24:19 2004 Subject: [BHC] THE "RAG-TAG" ADVOCATES FOR THE BURTON COLLECTION? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040627085357.009f7450@mail.wayne.edu> Message-ID: Oh please, Dr. Hyde. You are letting your PhDness get the best of you. Haven't our soldiers in the American Revolution been heroically, and yes, fondly, described as a rag-tag bunch of farmers? Cool it. Maybe you just need a new dictionary. Michael LaForest > From: "Charles K. Hyde" > Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 09:10:52 -0400 > To: BHC@habitant.org > Subject: [BHC] THE "RAG-TAG" ADVOCATES FOR THE BURTON COLLECTION? > > Burton Historical Collection List > _______________________________________________ > > > John: > > I deeply resemble your characterization of the Burton Advocates as a > "rag-tag" group. > > The fattest dictionary I own defines "rag-tag" as follows: "The > riffraff. The rabble." > > Looking further, "riffraff" is defined as "the worthless or disreputable > element of society" and "rabble" is defined as "disorderly > crowd, mob" and "the lower classes." > > I am deeply hurt by this characterization of our mighty group of brave > warriors. We are hardly disreputable or worthless and we have seldom > acted as a disorderly crowd, to my knowledge. I should also add that we > are NOT terrorists. If library patrons are members of "the lower > classes," then I guess we deserve that label. > > John, I think you owe all of us a sincere apology for this insult. > > > Herr Professor Charles K. Hyde, Ph.D > > > _______________________________________________ > BHC mailing list > BHC@habitant.org > http://habitant.org/mailman/listinfo/bhc_habitant.org From aa0912 at wayne.edu Sun Jun 27 10:39:50 2004 From: aa0912 at wayne.edu (Charles K. Hyde) Date: Sun Jun 27 10:34:36 2004 Subject: [BHC] Fwd: RE: TRAVEL TO ALA MEETINGS Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040627133854.009f8df0@mail.wayne.edu> >John: > >You are overly-defensive ! > >I think this IS an issue, if only because it demonstrates their >insensitivity to the budgetary crisis and their sense of entitlement from >their jobs. > >You raise a good question--who has paid for this junket? > >I still think we should go for a FOIA request for details about the trip to >the ALA convention--Who went and how much it costs and who paid for it? > >Charlie From dulongj at habitant.org Sun Jun 27 11:47:23 2004 From: dulongj at habitant.org (John P. DuLong) Date: Sun Jun 27 11:45:52 2004 Subject: [BHC] THE "RAG-TAG" ADVOCATES FOR THE BURTON COLLECTION? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040627140055.00a04ec0@mail.wayne.edu> Message-ID: Folks, I should explain that Charlie and I both have twisted senses of humor. We often joke with one another and we were just kidding one another online. Please don't pick on Charlie. He has a fragile ego and is very sensitive. Besides, he has been one of the strongest Advocates for the Burton since the beginning of our struggles. So everyone Relax. I promise to be more serious if Charlie does too, but that would take all the fun out of things. We like to be happy warriors. JP From dulongj at habitant.org Sun Jun 27 20:44:27 2004 From: dulongj at habitant.org (John P. DuLong) Date: Sun Jun 27 20:42:56 2004 Subject: [BHC] Patron Survey Message-ID: Hello Folks, Several people have told me they have received a patron survey from the Detroit Public Library. Would one of you please send me a copy of the survey so I can see what it is like? Also, I am wondering if just Detroiters are getting the survey. In general, I think a patron satisfaction survey is a good idea. I just hope all of you give them a lot to think over and that they actually listen to our concerns. JP John P. DuLong, Ph.D. Acadian and French Canadian Genealogy 959 Oxford Road Berkley, MI 48072-2011 USA (248) 541-2894 dulongj@habitant.org From dulongj at habitant.org Sun Jun 27 21:11:06 2004 From: dulongj at habitant.org (John P. DuLong) Date: Sun Jun 27 21:09:33 2004 Subject: [BHC] Detroiters and Non-Detroiters: We Will All Suffer Message-ID: Folks, My fear is that the usage fee issue will divide the Detroit and non-Detroit patrons of the Burton Historical Collection. We have to stand together. If the usage fee is imposed, then many, if not most, non-Detroiters will stop using the Burton and donating to it. They will shift their research to the Library of Michigan and the Allen County Public Library. The fewer patrons using the Burton, the easier it will be for the library administration to justify further staff and budget cuts to the Burton. These cuts will only further endanger the long-term future of the Burton. It is fundamentally unfair for the state to remove the funding for the Detroit Public Library. But rather than driving another wedge between Detroiters and non-Detroiters, we should be working together to see the state funding restored. In the past the Advocates for the Burton Historical Collection have asked their legislators not to cut the state funding but to implement oversight measures to insure that the money is properly spent. Given the financial scandal at the library this only seemed the prudent thing to ask for. Last year we wrote letters to our legislators to restore the state funding. During this recent round of budget planning the Advocates did not write letters supporting the library because we did not know about the current struggle. This is mostly my fault because I had pulled away from the library issues and had not kept my eye on the ball. Just a few days before the Detroit Library Commission decided to impose a usage fee I received information about the current state budget struggle. This information came to me through an Advocate with one of the genealogical societies; not from the library administration. However, it arrived too late to mobilize the Advocates to help. Why did the library administration not enlist the help of the Advocates to write to our state legislators when there was a chance we could do some good? Ms. Skowronski and several other library administrators are on our email list. We are only an email away. I am attaching a copy of a letter I wrote to Ms. Skowronski, the Director of the Detroit Public Library, back in 2003 offering to help in the campaign to restore state funding (see the last paragraph). Neither Ms. Skowronski or any other Detroit Public Library official has ever bothered to contact me or the Advocates' email list. Nor am I aware of any general appeal the library administration made to the public to support their case for state funding. This usage fee policy was made without consulting us, the patrons of the other special collections, the Burton Historical Collection staff, the staff of the other special collections, the boards and trustees of the special collections, or the Friends of the Detroit Public Library. It was a unilateral decision to punish the most vocal patrons and to send a message to Lansing. But it is a policy that has already backfired. This will only create more bad public relations for the library and will not impress the legislators. In closing I am making a plea that we all stick together. We are historians and genealogists, not Detroiters and non-Detroiters. When the usage fee policy is rescinded we should all work together to see that the state funding is restored. Here is the letter: Advocates for the Burton Historical Collection 31 May 2003 Ms. Nancy Skowronski Director Detroit Public Library 5201 Woodward Ave. Detroit, MI 48202 Dear Ms. Skowronski, On behalf of the Advocates for the Burton Historical Collection, I would like to congratulate you on your appointment as the Director of the Detroit Public Library. We wish you the best of luck in your new position. I am sure you share our concern to protect and improve the Burton Historical Collection. We would like to work with you to return this special collection to its premier position in the state and region. As you may have noticed, we have been active in trying to get the state funding restored to the Detroit Public Library. Please let me know if there is anything else that the Advocates can do to help restore this funding. Sincerely, John P. DuLong, Ph.D. Chair of the Advocates for the Burton Historical Collection 959 Oxford Road Berkley, MI 48072-2011 (313) 916-2550, work (248) 541-2894, home (313) 874-4730, fax dulongj@habitant.org http://habitant.org/bhc From WordenW at cncl.ci.detroit.mi.us Mon Jun 28 06:10:26 2004 From: WordenW at cncl.ci.detroit.mi.us (William Worden) Date: Mon Jun 28 06:10:43 2004 Subject: [BHC] THE "RAG-TAG" ADVOCATES FOR THE BURTON COLLECTION? Message-ID: I cannot resist asking why Charlie is concerned if, as he himself said, he deeply resembles the description of "rag-tag!" Bill Worden >>> "John P. DuLong" 06/27/04 02:47PM >>> Burton Historical Collection List _______________________________________________ Folks, I should explain that Charlie and I both have twisted senses of humor. We often joke with one another and we were just kidding one another online. Please don't pick on Charlie. He has a fragile ego and is very sensitive. Besides, he has been one of the strongest Advocates for the Burton since the beginning of our struggles. So everyone Relax. I promise to be more serious if Charlie does too, but that would take all the fun out of things. We like to be happy warriors. JP _______________________________________________ BHC mailing list BHC@habitant.org http://habitant.org/mailman/listinfo/bhc_habitant.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/bhc_habitant.org/attachments/20040628/21c1e007/attachment.htm From dulongj at habitant.org Mon Jun 28 09:23:31 2004 From: dulongj at habitant.org (John P. DuLong) Date: Mon Jun 28 09:22:02 2004 Subject: [BHC] Our Propose Plan of Action: Need Your Vote Message-ID: Folks, I am enclosing a proposed plan of action to combat the usage fee. This plan has been reviewed by a number of people whose advice I trust. There is still some word smithing that should be done to it and I welcome your suggestions. However, I wanted to show it to you now. Please read it over and tell me if you support it or object to it. I need to hear from enough of you to see if as a group we are going to endorse this plan. As you will see this plan calls for a donation boycott. Let me make sure you all understand that I and the people I have shown this plan to are very reluctant to start a donation boycott. We really do not want to do this. Once people stop donating it is hard to get them to start up again. However, as many of us are non-Detroiters and we can not vote in Detroit, nor can we recall the Detroit Library Commissioners, all we can do is vote with our money and effort. I need to hear back from you by the end of Tuesday 29 June 2004 so I can send it off to Ms. Skowronski on the 30th. The reason for this rush is I will be out of town until 12 July 2004. In the letter I will send to Ms. Skowronski accompanying this Plan of Action to the commissioners, I will suggest to her that we meet soon after 12 July 2004 to see if a reasonable compromise can be worked out. Several of you have indicated to me that you would be willing to pay a more reasonable donation on a sliding scale and if the money was guaranteed to go to the Burton and the other special collections. I think it is important that we give Ms. Skowronski an opportunity to negotiate with us before the 1 August 2004 deadline. Here is the proposed plan of action: ********* Plan of Action to Protest the Detroit Public Library Access Fee The following plan of action will be formally communicated to the Detroit Library Commission and the Detroit Public Library administration before 12 July 2004. The Detroit Library Commission has failed to realize that the majority of Burton Historical Collection patrons not only come from the suburbs and from out-state Michigan, but also are major financial contributors to the Detroit Public Library. Why should we continue to be generous to a library that excludes us? Given the removal of state funding, we understand the need for a borrowing fee to support this program for non-Detroiters, but an access fee is simply punitive. The non-Detroit patrons of the Burton Historical Collection, individually and through the societies they belong to, have donated funds, equipment, volunteer hours, expertise, historical materials, and family records to the library for decades. We have written and spoken about the value of the Burton Historical Collection to audiences across the nation and internationally and have encouraged people to use and support the collection. The Detroit Public Library lost their state funding?in large part due to scandals surrounding the mismanagement of grants and donations?and is now taking it out on non-residents who have been the most vocal supporters of the Burton Historical Collection and the library in general. We wonder how effective the usage fee will be in replacing the lost state funding. Furthermore, this usage fee was decided without consulting the patrons or the affected organizations. In order to impress upon the Detroit Library Commission and the Detroit Public Library administration the seriousness of our objection to this unfair usage fee we believe it now necessary to engage in a donation boycott. If the access fee is imposed on the non-Detroit patrons of the Detroit Public Library on 1 August 2004, then we pledge to take the following actions starting on that date: 1. Although most of us will not pay the fee and will do our research elsewhere, for those of us who absolutely must use the Burton Historical Collection?due to the nature of our research?we will do so under protest and will formally complain to the Detroit Library Commission. 2. Those of us who belong to the Friends of the Detroit Public Library will resign and refuse to renew our memberships. 3. We will refuse to personally donate any funds whatsoever to the Detroit Public Library. 4. We will refuse to participate in any fund raising programs the Detroit Public Library engages in. We will not volunteer to help with any of these programs. We will encourage others not to cooperate with the library. 5. We will encourage others not to donate to the library. This includes making a special effort to contact past individual contributors who have made large contributions. 6. We will write to the major corporate donors to the Detroit Public Library and ask them to no longer financially support the library. 7. We will contact societies we belong to that have contributed in the past and ask them to withhold any further donations. 8. The money we would normally donate to the Detroit Public Library we will instead donate to other genealogical and historical libraries and archives in the region. When we make these donations we will explain to the institution that our gift is being done in protest of the access fee and in lieu of a donation we would otherwise be making to the Detroit Public Library. 9. We will strongly encourage people not to donate historical and genealogical materials to the Burton Historical Collection and to instead donate them to other worthy collections in the state. 10. We will contact organizations that have donated materials to the Burton Historical Collection with the understanding that they would be open to the public and ask them to demand the return of these materials. We will encourage them to donate these materials to other institutions. 11. We will coordinate our efforts with the patrons of the National Automotive History Collection, the E. Azalia Hackley Collection, the Great Lakes Patent and Trademark Center, the Map Collection, and the Rare Book Collection. We will ask them to join us in our donation boycott. 12. We will distribute this plan of action across the Internet to every historical and genealogical group with an interest in the Burton Historical Collection and ask them to join our effort and spread the word to their members. 13. We will publicly protest this policy and attract media attention to our cause. 14. We will stand neutral during the 2004 millage campaign. We will not endorse it and we will not lend our support and encouragement to the campaign, but we will do nothing to oppose it. 15. We will make a special effort to reach out to our Detroit friends and ask them to understand our position and support us. When the access fee is rescinded we will cease these actions and resume our past support to the Detroit Public Library and enthusiastically endorse the millage campaign. Also we will, as we have done in the past, vigorously support any efforts to reinstate state funding to the Detroit Public Library. In essence we are calling for a donation boycott of the Detroit Public Library. We do not want to do this and it is in the interest of the library that this boycott not be initiated at all. Once a boycott starts, even when it results in success and is called off, there is usually a long lasting and damaging fall off in donations that takes years to rebuild. The Detroit Library Commission has until 1 August 2004 to rescind the access fee on the non-Detroiters. ********** Best regards, JP John P. DuLong, Ph.D. Acadian and French Canadian Genealogy 959 Oxford Road Berkley, MI 48072-2011 USA (248) 541-2894 dulongj@habitant.org From ChristieTrapp at aol.com Mon Jun 28 11:56:29 2004 From: ChristieTrapp at aol.com (ChristieTrapp@aol.com) Date: Mon Jun 28 11:56:37 2004 Subject: [BHC] Our Propose Plan of Action: Need Your Vote Message-ID: In a message dated 6/28/2004 9:23:53 AM Pacific Standard Time, dulongj@habitant.org writes: In order to impress upon the Detroit Library Commission and the Detroit Public Library administration the seriousness of our objection to this unfair usage fee we believe it now necessary to engage in a donation boycott. Sounds good to me; however, I believe there might be a sentence structure problem (missing verb?) in the above paragraph. I believe it should read: . . . . usage fee we believe it IS now necessary to engage in..... This was the only paragraph that seemed awkward grammatically. Any possible way to threaten to have the entire Burton Collection removed from the DPL? Or is the contract they made with Burton built with concrete? Is there anyway to get a separate Burton Library built in the future? Just a thought. Maybe this collection is getting too big and overwhelming for the DPL to handle and it needs to find housing elsewhere so the DPL can concentrate on being a local library the same as the smaller branch libraries. This would help them with their funding issues, staffing issues and the like if there could be a separate library to house all the genealogical collections; i.e., like the Sutro Library is to the California state library system. Sutro houses all books and films pertaining to the United States except the bulk of California material which is in Sacramento. Sutro has some California material, but the concentration of genealogical books and films is for the rest of the United States. I see mention of other collections which are in the DPL that are apparently supported by major corporations or organizations. Maybe it is time to go to them to see about getting a new building to house all these collections under one roof. This would be for a later date after the fee issue is resolved, but could or should it be be mentioned as a possible solution or threat in the present matter? Christie Trapp Fairfield, CA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/bhc_habitant.org/attachments/20040628/f6284945/attachment.htm From dulongj at habitant.org Tue Jun 29 14:26:33 2004 From: dulongj at habitant.org (John P. DuLong) Date: Tue Jun 29 14:25:04 2004 Subject: [BHC] Running Out of Time Message-ID: Folks, Sorry to do this to you all, but I am running out of time before I leave on a working vacation. I am still preparing for the genealogy workshop I volunteered to run on Friday in Michigan's Copper Country. I just can not finish up the preparation for the workshop and get all the Burton related stuff done before I leave. Therefore, I think we should take another two weeks before we send in the Plan of Action and a cover letter. The Burton is too important to rush things through because the more I rush the more mistakes I make. I will be back by 12 July 2004 (but in training during the day for a week so I still will not have much time to work on the Burton stuff). Soon after the 12th I can fix up the Plan of Action (thanks for the corrections and ideas people) and prepare a cover letter with an offer to negotiate a compromise. This delay makes things chronologically tight if we hope to have the usage fee policy reversed before 1 August 2004, but whether it is rescinded then or a few weeks later I feel we will be OK. Of course this also gives more Advocates time to read over the Plan of Action and respond to it. So if you have not yet voted yes or no to the plan, then please email me with your vote. On another topic, I have not yet heard back from Sen. Shirley Johnson about the Michigan constitutionality of the usage fee. However, I have been told she takes a long time to respond. Meanwhile, a kind and wise librarian has advised me to contact my state representative, Mr. Andy Meisner, and ask for his assistance in acquiring Mr. Mike Cox's opinion on this matter. When I return from my vacation I will follow through on this. It is my hope that the next two weeks will be quiet regarding the Burton. I will not be able to check my email frequently, if at all, but I trust all of you can help keep each other informed by posting updates on our list. Regards, JP John P. DuLong, Ph.D. Acadian and French Canadian Genealogy 959 Oxford Road Berkley, MI 48072-2011 USA (248) 541-2894 dulongj@habitant.org From dulongj at habitant.org Wed Jun 30 18:33:31 2004 From: dulongj at habitant.org (John P. DuLong) Date: Wed Jun 30 18:31:58 2004 Subject: [BHC] AOL Unsubscribe, Contact Me Please Message-ID: Would the person with the AOL account who wants to be unsubscribed please contact me at dulongj@habitant.org. I will be happy to remove you from the list. JP John P. DuLong, Ph.D. Acadian and French Canadian Genealogy 959 Oxford Road Berkley, MI 48072-2011 USA (248) 541-2894 dulongj@habitant.org From dulongj at habitant.org Wed Jun 30 18:33:31 2004 From: dulongj at habitant.org (John P. DuLong) Date: Wed Jun 30 18:31:59 2004 Subject: [BHC] Email List in Jeopardy Message-ID: It never fails, I am rushing to get out and something has to happen. Lunarpages, who hosts our Burton email list, received a complaint from an AOL user that he/she is being spamed. The solution Lunarpages advised is for me to remove all the AOL accounts, about 80 of you, and not allow AOL accounts to subscribe. This is TOTALLY unrealistic. I am trying to negotiate this with them, but I am running out of hours to work on it. Therefore, be warned, our email list may suddenly stop working until I get back to solve this problem. Please accept my apology. I will fix this as soon as I can. I am afraid that Lunarpages may remove all the AOL accounts next week while I am gone. If you have an AOL account and do not get any messages after 12 July 2004, then please re-subscribe at http://habitant.org/bhc Regards, JP John P. DuLong, Ph.D. Acadian and French Canadian Genealogy 959 Oxford Road Berkley, MI 48072-2011 USA (248) 541-2894 dulongj@habitant.org