[FCHSM] FCHSM Digest, Vol 23, Issue 18
Georgina Dean
deansden at wightman.ca
Fri Apr 18 10:49:40 PDT 2008
Hi
I have been reading the comments about the indexing of the Droin records.
We must remember that there are several factors that transcribers face -
First and foremost is the quality of entries by the origianl person. They
didn.t know how to spell either (Take a look at the French names on the 1881
census for Tiny Township in Ontario)
Second; Many people at one time were illiterate - and document creators
spelled phonetically by the sound. Heavy French accents become difficult to
interpret
Third; French ancestors often went by familiar names - William for example,
when official documents may g=have i.e. Guillame
Fourth: a name search might bring up a record that matches everything but
the place that you thoght they were born - married - died - Don't rule the
record out completely until you verify that the Priest was or wasn't
travelling (Missions) Somebody whodse marriage record shows in the Oka
register may have been married on Drummond Island - even years before the
Priest got there
The difficulties in the Drouin Record Indexes and even original records are
the same ones we find when accessing other forms of BMD's
Georgina Dean
doing ongoing research of the French families in Simcoe Cty, Ontario
----- Original Message -----
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Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 10:49 AM
Subject: FCHSM Digest, Vol 23, Issue 18
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> French-Canadian Heritage Society of Michigan List
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. New index to Drouin files on Ancestry.ca or Ancestry.com
> (Suzanne Sommerville)
> 2. Re: New index to Drouin files on Ancestry.ca or Ancestry.com
> (Peggy Youngs)
> 3. Re: New index to Drouin files on Ancestry.ca or Ancestry.com
> (John P. DuLong)
> 4. Re: New index to Drouin files on Ancestry.ca or Ancestry.com
> (Suzanne Sommerville)
> 5. Re: New index to Drouin files on Ancestry.ca or Ancestry.com
> (Richard Van Wasshnova)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 04:49:42 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Suzanne Sommerville <s.sommerville at sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: [FCHSM] New index to Drouin files on Ancestry.ca or
> Ancestry.com
> To: fchsm at habitant.org
> Message-ID: <331588.37254.qm at web83721.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Here are my initial responses to the new index now available on
ancestry.ca for the Drouin Collection. I've filed versions of these with the
Quebec-Research RootsWeb list (but I've corrected one blooper of my own,
correcting 1923 to 1925).
>
> First observation:
> I played with the index at the Drouin Collection on ancestry.ca, trying
to see whether the Early U. S. Records for what became Detroit are now also
searchable. Well, some seem to be, but.....
>
> Someone read
>
> Dun Enfant Lamotte
>
> as a proper name!
>
> It's a burial at Assomption (now Windsor, Ontario, across the river from
Detroit) 1811-1824 of a child, d'un enfant in French, with the last name of
Lamotte but with no first name given! The record does pop up to be
verified, but what a glitch in reading the record.
>
> Users be aware that any index depends on the reading skills of its
compilers.
>
> I'm sure this index will be of value, but watch for bloopers like this
one made by a reader who obviously cannot read French. It will be
interesting to see how someone read the Native American names.
>
> Haven't found Marie Therese de Lamothe Cadillac yet, the first baptismal
entry in the Ste. Anne de Detroit register 1704, although I tried a few
combinations.
>
>
> Second observation:
> Be advised that the access to the Early U. S. records has changed.
>
> Now you get:
>
> Please choose a state:
>
> A H P
> C J S
> D L V
> F M
>
>
> Selecting M gets:
> Early U.S. French Catholic Church Records (Drouin Collection),
1695-1954Original Images
> This database contains images of original records.
>
> Please choose a city/town in M:
> Makinac, Ste-Anne
> Makinac, Ste-Anne; Copie Wisconsin Historical
> Makinac, Ste-Anne; Missions St-Fran?ois-Xavier et Fort Vincenne
> Mobile
>
> You have to choose D to get Detroit, which is not a State. [A later
search found that all of the files available in this section are
alphabetized by the first word in the name, a word that is most often not a
State.]
>
> I haven't explored whether the other Drouin Collection files also have a
different set up to select records.
>
> Third observation:
> I have searched in vain, so far, for any indexing of the births and
burials for the earliest years of Ste. Anne de Detroit. This morning, I did
find the following marriages for the Fafard name, but indexed under
L'Assomption de Sandwich de Windsor, a parish across the Detroit River from
Detroit.
>
> Early U.S. French Catholic Church Records (Drouin Collection), 1695-1954
> about Michel Bisaillon
> Name: Michel Bisaillon
> Spouse: Marguerite Fafard
> [Margueritte Fafard (their addition)]
> Event Year: 1710-1801 [marriage in 1710, my addition]
> Religion: Catholique
> Place: D?troit, L`Assomption de Sandwich de Windsor
> State: Michigan
>
>
> View Image
> Source Information:
> Ancestry.com. Early U.S. French Catholic Church Records (Drouin
Collection), 1695-1954 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: The Generations
Network, Inc., 2007. Original data: Gabriel Drouin, comp. Drouin Collection.
Montreal, Quebec, Canada: Institut G?n?alogique Drouin.
>
> My comment:
> Actually, this marriage took place at Fort Pontchartrain, in what became
the parish of Ste. Anne de Detroit, now Detroit, Michigan. The item entry
is, however, taken from a transcription index found in the Sandwich,
modern-day Windsor, Ontario, records.
>
> The following entries are similarly in error for the Fafard/Fafart name:
>
> Margaret {sic, English spelling, my addition} Fafard Mariage 1710-1801
Catholique D?troit, L`Assomption de Sandwich de Windsor Michigan
> View Record
>
> Marguerite Fafard Mariage 1710-1801 Catholique D?troit, L`Assomption
de Sandwich de Windsor Michigan
> View Record
>
> Jean Baptiste Turpin Mariage 1710-1801 Catholique D?troit,
L`Assomption de Sandwich de Windsor Michigan
> View Record
>
> Veuf {widower, my addition} De Marie Magdelen Tobin {sic, my addition,
should be Jobin} Francois Fafart Dit Delorme Mariage 1710-1801 Catholique
D?troit, L`Assomption de Sandwich de Windsor Michigan
> Barbe Loisel Mariage 1710-1801 Catholique D?troit, L`Assomption de
Sandwich de Windsor Michigan
>
> It appears that the original Ste. Anne de Detroit registers for the
earliest period have been ignored, at least I have not yet been successful
in finding any, even when I have photocopies of the registry in front of me.
>
> Users beware.
>
> On the positive side, I did locate the marriage of a cousine in the
records for 1925 Ste Anne de Detroit and now know with certainty who her
parents were. However, when searching for her father's marriage, I found
Wilfred Boivin's name transcribed as Hilfrid Boisson, in Ste. Sophie.
>
> I am both elated and appalled by the new index, and I fear what will
happen when those who are unfamiliar with the records to begin with enter
the data preserved in it on yet other internet web sites. Tanguay opened a
veritable Pandora's box. This index is another one, so far.
>
> It has also been reported to the Quebec-Research list that records in
the Qu?bec files for St. Jean Baptiste (definitely a Catholic parish) have
been entered as Baptist denomination, not Catholique.
>
> Many people are contacting Ancestry to request the ability to correct
the errors that have been found in this new "index" to the Drouin
Collection. At least, the digital images available at Ancestry allow users
to verify the contents of the abstracted details.
>
>
> The work done by FCHSM member Sharon Kelley for the published version of
the index to Early Detroit marriages and her ongoing work on the other early
records becomes even more valuable in the light of the problems found in the
new Drouin index at Ancestry.
>
> Suzanne Boivin Sommerville, FCHSM member
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 08:08:02 -0400
> From: "Peggy Youngs" <peggy.youngs at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [FCHSM] New index to Drouin files on Ancestry.ca or
> Ancestry.com
> To: fchsm at habitant.org
> Message-ID:
> <2b2a40b60804180508vc3f6d1ahed302e41719ec91e at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi Suzanne and all,
>
> I received an email from Ancestry.ca a couple of days ago (sorry, I've
> already deleted it
> or I would include it here) which indicated that the newly-created index
for
> Drouin covered
> the period 1850-1969.
>
> However, I have found some Drouin records covering parts of Quebec in the
> early 1800s
> which were indexed, so it's unclear to me just how much indexing has been
> done.
>
> Like Suzanne, I have found gross errors in the index as well. The
indexing
> was clearly done
> by those unfamiliar with either French words or paleography. At present,
> there is no way
> to provide corrections to the indexed names, adding to the difficulty.
>
> As Suzanne says, user beware.
>
> Peggy Youngs
> --
> One person's mess is merely another person's filing system.
> -
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 05:45:47 -0700
> From: "John P. DuLong" <dulongj at habitant.org>
> Subject: Re: [FCHSM] New index to Drouin files on Ancestry.ca or
> Ancestry.com
> To: fchsm at habitant.org
> Message-ID: <20080418054547.35jvqt4uyso0k4c4 at habitant.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes";
> format="flowed"
>
> Given Suzanne's observations, I cannot believe that the PRDH handled
> the indexing of the Drouin collection as was originally planned and
> annouced last year. If any group would be aware of French names and
> their variations it should be the PRDH. I suspect that the indexing
> was probably done by being outsourced to India or some other
> non-French speaking third world country.
>
> JP
>
>
> John P. DuLong, Ph.D.
> Acadian and French Canadian Genealogy
> 959 Oxford Road
> Berkley, MI 48072-2011
> (248) 541-2894
> http://habitant.org
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 07:20:29 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Suzanne Sommerville <s.sommerville at sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: Re: [FCHSM] New index to Drouin files on Ancestry.ca or
> Ancestry.com
> To: "John P. DuLong" <dulongj at habitant.org>, fchsm at habitant.org
> Message-ID: <736206.31383.qm at web83726.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Here's an additional set of index entries that leads to glitches in what
Drouin calls "original" records:
>
> 25 Mars 1708
> Name: Marie Robert
> Spouse: Francois Pelletier
> [Francois Pelleteir] {sic, their comment}
> Event Year: 1710-1801
> Religion: Catholique
> Place: D?troit, L`Assomption de Sandwich de Windsor
> State: Michigan
>
> Name: J Baptiste Fafart
> Spouse: Marguerite Joseph
> [Marguriete Joseph] {sic, their comment}
> Event Year: 1710-1801
> Religion: Catholique
> Place: D?troit, L`Assomption de Sandwich de Windsor
> State: Michigan
>
> Examining the digital image of the first transcribed index entry above
in the records of L'Assomption de Sandwich, from which this index entry is
taken, I see that Marie Robert's mother was read as Angelique Balom?,
actually Ptolom?e. By the way, this marriage in 1718 signals the first time
the parish of Ste Anne du D?troit is mentioned in the original register.
>
> The second transcribed index record above asserts that J. Baptiste
Fafart's mother is Marguerite CAMPAU, when I know it actually reads
Marguerite COUCQUE (which I know is also spelled Couc dit Lafleur de
Cognac).
>
> These entries convince me that this partial transcription is suspect. I
was formerly unaware that it even existed. The problem is that, unless a
reader jumps back to page one of the file, there is no way to know that
these are actually Ste. Anne du / de D?troit marriage records that were
partially transcribed into the L'Assomption records at some time.
>
> What a shame!
>
> Actually, the early records of Fort Pontchartrain and Ste. Anne de
Detroit appear in at least three files, only one of which contains the
original records to about 1744, and then another for after 1744. The others
are transcriptions and contain errors.
>
> Everyone has to know what kind of source is being presented, even if you
are able to examine the record and not just the index entry.
> Suzanne
>
> "John P. DuLong" <dulongj at habitant.org> wrote:
> French-Canadian Heritage Society of Michigan List
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Given Suzanne's observations, I cannot believe that the PRDH handled
> the indexing of the Drouin collection as was originally planned and
> annouced last year. If any group would be aware of French names and
> their variations it should be the PRDH. I suspect that the indexing
> was probably done by being outsourced to India or some other
> non-French speaking third world country.
>
> JP
>
>
> John P. DuLong, Ph.D.
> Acadian and French Canadian Genealogy
> 959 Oxford Road
> Berkley, MI 48072-2011
> (248) 541-2894
> http://habitant.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> FCHSM mailing list
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 08:49:04 -0700
> From: "Richard Van Wasshnova" <richdi.vanwasshnova at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: [FCHSM] New index to Drouin files on Ancestry.ca or
> Ancestry.com
> To: "Suzanne Sommerville" <s.sommerville at sbcglobal.net>,
> <fchsm at habitant.org>
> Message-ID: <004001c8a16b$bb579170$2f01a8c0 at Diane>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
> reply-type=original
>
> Suzanne,
>
> I read it on Quebec-Research RootsWeb list that the transcribing, (or was
it
> translating), was not done by humans but by machines using test
recognition
> software. SHE sounded quite serious.
> --
> Richard Van Wasshnova
> Seal Beach, CA
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Suzanne Sommerville
> To: fchsm at habitant.org
> Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 4:49 AM
> Subject: [FCHSM] New index to Drouin files on Ancestry.ca or Ancestry.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
> End of FCHSM Digest, Vol 23, Issue 18
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