I was under the impression that the bulk if not all of the Drouin records
are parish records, completed by parish priests who were not illiterate and
who were very familiar with French names, accents and so forth.
Some of the images on Ancestry are difficult to read, but there is little
excuse for the kinds of transcription errors people are reporting.
Indexes are great but they unfortunately will never be a complete
replacement for the back breaking, time consuming grind through the originals.
Steve.
At 12:49 PM 4/18/08 -0500, you wrote:
>I have been reading the comments about the indexing of the Droin records.
>
>We must remember that there are several factors that transcribers face -
>First and foremost is the quality of entries by the origianl person. They
>didn.t know how to spell either (Take a look at the French names on the 1881
>census for Tiny Township in Ontario)
>Second; Many people at one time were illiterate - and document creators
>spelled phonetically by the sound. Heavy French accents become difficult to
>interpret
>Third; French ancestors often went by familiar names - William for example,
>when official documents may g=have i.e. Guillame
>
>Fourth: a name search might bring up a record that matches everything but
>the place that you thoght they were born - married - died - Don't rule the
>record out completely until you verify that the Priest was or wasn't
>travelling (Missions) Somebody whodse marriage record shows in the Oka
>register may have been married on Drummond Island - even years before the
>Priest got there
>
>
>The difficulties in the Drouin Record Indexes and even original records are
>the same ones we find when accessing other forms of BMD's
>
>Georgina Dean
>doing ongoing research of the French families in Simcoe Cty, Ontario
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <fchsm-request at habitant.org>
>To: <fchsm at habitant.org>
>Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 10:49 AM
>Subject: FCHSM Digest, Vol 23, Issue 18
>
>
> > Send FCHSM mailing list submissions to
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> >
> > French-Canadian Heritage Society of Michigan List
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> > 1. New index to Drouin files on Ancestry.ca or Ancestry.com
> > (Suzanne Sommerville)
> > 2. Re: New index to Drouin files on Ancestry.ca or Ancestry.com
> > (Peggy Youngs)
> > 3. Re: New index to Drouin files on Ancestry.ca or Ancestry.com
> > (John P. DuLong)
> > 4. Re: New index to Drouin files on Ancestry.ca or Ancestry.com
> > (Suzanne Sommerville)
> > 5. Re: New index to Drouin files on Ancestry.ca or Ancestry.com
> > (Richard Van Wasshnova)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 04:49:42 -0700 (PDT)
> > From: Suzanne Sommerville <s.sommerville at sbcglobal.net>
> > Subject: [FCHSM] New index to Drouin files on Ancestry.ca or
> > Ancestry.com
> > To: fchsm at habitant.org
> > Message-ID: <331588.37254.qm at web83721.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > Here are my initial responses to the new index now available on
>ancestry.ca for the Drouin Collection. I've filed versions of these with the
>Quebec-Research RootsWeb list (but I've corrected one blooper of my own,
>correcting 1923 to 1925).
> >
> > First observation:
> > I played with the index at the Drouin Collection on ancestry.ca, trying
>to see whether the Early U. S. Records for what became Detroit are now also
>searchable. Well, some seem to be, but.....
> >
> > Someone read
> >
> > Dun Enfant Lamotte
> >
> > as a proper name!
> >
> > It's a burial at Assomption (now Windsor, Ontario, across the river from
>Detroit) 1811-1824 of a child, d'un enfant in French, with the last name of
>Lamotte but with no first name given! The record does pop up to be
>verified, but what a glitch in reading the record.
> >
> > Users be aware that any index depends on the reading skills of its
>compilers.
> >
> > I'm sure this index will be of value, but watch for bloopers like this
>one made by a reader who obviously cannot read French. It will be
>interesting to see how someone read the Native American names.
> >
> > Haven't found Marie Therese de Lamothe Cadillac yet, the first baptismal
>entry in the Ste. Anne de Detroit register 1704, although I tried a few
>combinations.
> >
> >
> > Second observation:
> > Be advised that the access to the Early U. S. records has changed.
> >
> > Now you get:
> >
> > Please choose a state:
> >
> > A H P
> > C J S
> > D L V
> > F M
> >
> >
> > Selecting M gets:
> > Early U.S. French Catholic Church Records (Drouin Collection),
>1695-1954Original Images
> > This database contains images of original records.
> >
> > Please choose a city/town in M:
> > Makinac, Ste-Anne
> > Makinac, Ste-Anne; Copie Wisconsin Historical
> > Makinac, Ste-Anne; Missions St-Fran?ois-Xavier et Fort Vincenne
> > Mobile
> >
> > You have to choose D to get Detroit, which is not a State. [A later
>search found that all of the files available in this section are
>alphabetized by the first word in the name, a word that is most often not a
>State.]
> >
> > I haven't explored whether the other Drouin Collection files also have a
>different set up to select records.
> >
> > Third observation:
> > I have searched in vain, so far, for any indexing of the births and
>burials for the earliest years of Ste. Anne de Detroit. This morning, I did
>find the following marriages for the Fafard name, but indexed under
>L'Assomption de Sandwich de Windsor, a parish across the Detroit River from
>Detroit.
> >
> > Early U.S. French Catholic Church Records (Drouin Collection), 1695-1954
> > about Michel Bisaillon
> > Name: Michel Bisaillon
> > Spouse: Marguerite Fafard
> > [Margueritte Fafard (their addition)]
> > Event Year: 1710-1801 [marriage in 1710, my addition]
> > Religion: Catholique
> > Place: D?troit, L`Assomption de Sandwich de Windsor
> > State: Michigan
> >
> >
> > View Image
> > Source Information:
> > Ancestry.com. Early U.S. French Catholic Church Records (Drouin
>Collection), 1695-1954 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: The Generations
>Network, Inc., 2007. Original data: Gabriel Drouin, comp. Drouin Collection.
>Montreal, Quebec, Canada: Institut G?n?alogique Drouin.
> >
> > My comment:
> > Actually, this marriage took place at Fort Pontchartrain, in what became
>the parish of Ste. Anne de Detroit, now Detroit, Michigan. The item entry
>is, however, taken from a transcription index found in the Sandwich,
>modern-day Windsor, Ontario, records.
> >
> > The following entries are similarly in error for the Fafard/Fafart name:
> >
> > Margaret {sic, English spelling, my addition} Fafard Mariage 1710-1801
>Catholique D?troit, L`Assomption de Sandwich de Windsor Michigan
> > View Record
> >
> > Marguerite Fafard Mariage 1710-1801 Catholique D?troit, L`Assomption
>de Sandwich de Windsor Michigan
> > View Record
> >
> > Jean Baptiste Turpin Mariage 1710-1801 Catholique D?troit,
>L`Assomption de Sandwich de Windsor Michigan
> > View Record
> >
> > Veuf {widower, my addition} De Marie Magdelen Tobin {sic, my addition,
>should be Jobin} Francois Fafart Dit Delorme Mariage 1710-1801 Catholique
>D?troit, L`Assomption de Sandwich de Windsor Michigan
> > Barbe Loisel Mariage 1710-1801 Catholique D?troit, L`Assomption de
>Sandwich de Windsor Michigan
> >
> > It appears that the original Ste. Anne de Detroit registers for the
>earliest period have been ignored, at least I have not yet been successful
>in finding any, even when I have photocopies of the registry in front of me.
> >
> > Users beware.
> >
> > On the positive side, I did locate the marriage of a cousine in the
>records for 1925 Ste Anne de Detroit and now know with certainty who her
>parents were. However, when searching for her father's marriage, I found
>Wilfred Boivin's name transcribed as Hilfrid Boisson, in Ste. Sophie.
> >
> > I am both elated and appalled by the new index, and I fear what will
>happen when those who are unfamiliar with the records to begin with enter
>the data preserved in it on yet other internet web sites. Tanguay opened a
>veritable Pandora's box. This index is another one, so far.
> >
> > It has also been reported to the Quebec-Research list that records in
>the Qu?bec files for St. Jean Baptiste (definitely a Catholic parish) have
>been entered as Baptist denomination, not Catholique.
> >
> > Many people are contacting Ancestry to request the ability to correct
>the errors that have been found in this new "index" to the Drouin
>Collection. At least, the digital images available at Ancestry allow users
>to verify the contents of the abstracted details.
> >
> >
> > The work done by FCHSM member Sharon Kelley for the published version of
>the index to Early Detroit marriages and her ongoing work on the other early
>records becomes even more valuable in the light of the problems found in the
>new Drouin index at Ancestry.
> >
> > Suzanne Boivin Sommerville, FCHSM member
> >
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL:
>http://habitant.org/pipermail/fchsm_habitant.org/attachments/20080418/199568eb/attachment-0001.html
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 08:08:02 -0400
> > From: "Peggy Youngs" <peggy.youngs at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [FCHSM] New index to Drouin files on Ancestry.ca or
> > Ancestry.com
> > To: fchsm at habitant.org
> > Message-ID:
> > <2b2a40b60804180508vc3f6d1ahed302e41719ec91e at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > Hi Suzanne and all,
> >
> > I received an email from Ancestry.ca a couple of days ago (sorry, I've
> > already deleted it
> > or I would include it here) which indicated that the newly-created index
>for
> > Drouin covered
> > the period 1850-1969.
> >
> > However, I have found some Drouin records covering parts of Quebec in the
> > early 1800s
> > which were indexed, so it's unclear to me just how much indexing has been
> > done.
> >
> > Like Suzanne, I have found gross errors in the index as well. The
>indexing
> > was clearly done
> > by those unfamiliar with either French words or paleography. At present,
> > there is no way
> > to provide corrections to the indexed names, adding to the difficulty.
> >
> > As Suzanne says, user beware.
> >
> > Peggy Youngs
> > --
> > One person's mess is merely another person's filing system.
> > -
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL:
>http://habitant.org/pipermail/fchsm_habitant.org/attachments/20080418/3102732c/attachment-0001.html
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 05:45:47 -0700
> > From: "John P. DuLong" <dulongj at habitant.org>
> > Subject: Re: [FCHSM] New index to Drouin files on Ancestry.ca or
> > Ancestry.com
> > To: fchsm at habitant.org
> > Message-ID: <20080418054547.35jvqt4uyso0k4c4 at habitant.org>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes";
> > format="flowed"
> >
> > Given Suzanne's observations, I cannot believe that the PRDH handled
> > the indexing of the Drouin collection as was originally planned and
> > annouced last year. If any group would be aware of French names and
> > their variations it should be the PRDH. I suspect that the indexing
> > was probably done by being outsourced to India or some other
> > non-French speaking third world country.
> >
> > JP
> >
> >
> > John P. DuLong, Ph.D.
> > Acadian and French Canadian Genealogy
> > 959 Oxford Road
> > Berkley, MI 48072-2011
> > (248) 541-2894
> > http://habitant.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 07:20:29 -0700 (PDT)
> > From: Suzanne Sommerville <s.sommerville at sbcglobal.net>
> > Subject: Re: [FCHSM] New index to Drouin files on Ancestry.ca or
> > Ancestry.com
> > To: "John P. DuLong" <dulongj at habitant.org>, fchsm at habitant.org
> > Message-ID: <736206.31383.qm at web83726.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > Here's an additional set of index entries that leads to glitches in what
>Drouin calls "original" records:
> >
> > 25 Mars 1708
> > Name: Marie Robert
> > Spouse: Francois Pelletier
> > [Francois Pelleteir] {sic, their comment}
> > Event Year: 1710-1801
> > Religion: Catholique
> > Place: D?troit, L`Assomption de Sandwich de Windsor
> > State: Michigan
> >
> > Name: J Baptiste Fafart
> > Spouse: Marguerite Joseph
> > [Marguriete Joseph] {sic, their comment}
> > Event Year: 1710-1801
> > Religion: Catholique
> > Place: D?troit, L`Assomption de Sandwich de Windsor
> > State: Michigan
> >
> > Examining the digital image of the first transcribed index entry above
>in the records of L'Assomption de Sandwich, from which this index entry is
>taken, I see that Marie Robert's mother was read as Angelique Balom?,
>actually Ptolom?e. By the way, this marriage in 1718 signals the first time
>the parish of Ste Anne du D?troit is mentioned in the original register.
> >
> > The second transcribed index record above asserts that J. Baptiste
>Fafart's mother is Marguerite CAMPAU, when I know it actually reads
>Marguerite COUCQUE (which I know is also spelled Couc dit Lafleur de
>Cognac).
> >
> > These entries convince me that this partial transcription is suspect. I
>was formerly unaware that it even existed. The problem is that, unless a
>reader jumps back to page one of the file, there is no way to know that
>these are actually Ste. Anne du / de D?troit marriage records that were
>partially transcribed into the L'Assomption records at some time.
> >
> > What a shame!
> >
> > Actually, the early records of Fort Pontchartrain and Ste. Anne de
>Detroit appear in at least three files, only one of which contains the
>original records to about 1744, and then another for after 1744. The others
>are transcriptions and contain errors.
> >
> > Everyone has to know what kind of source is being presented, even if you
>are able to examine the record and not just the index entry.
> > Suzanne
> >
> > "John P. DuLong" <dulongj at habitant.org> wrote:
> > French-Canadian Heritage Society of Michigan List
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> > Given Suzanne's observations, I cannot believe that the PRDH handled
> > the indexing of the Drouin collection as was originally planned and
> > annouced last year. If any group would be aware of French names and
> > their variations it should be the PRDH. I suspect that the indexing
> > was probably done by being outsourced to India or some other
> > non-French speaking third world country.
> >
> > JP
> >
> >
> > John P. DuLong, Ph.D.
> > Acadian and French Canadian Genealogy
> > 959 Oxford Road
> > Berkley, MI 48072-2011
> > (248) 541-2894
> > http://habitant.org
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > FCHSM mailing list
> > FCHSM at habitant.org
> > http://habitant.org/mailman/listinfo/fchsm_habitant.org
> >
> > To visit our archives of postings or to unsubscribe, please point your
>browser to our list <a
>href="http://habitant.org/mailman/listinfo/fchsm_habitant.org">webpage</a>.
> >
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL:
>http://habitant.org/pipermail/fchsm_habitant.org/attachments/20080418/939c4a3d/attachment-0001.html
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 5
> > Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 08:49:04 -0700
> > From: "Richard Van Wasshnova" <richdi.vanwasshnova at verizon.net>
> > Subject: Re: [FCHSM] New index to Drouin files on Ancestry.ca or
> > Ancestry.com
> > To: "Suzanne Sommerville" <s.sommerville at sbcglobal.net>,
> > <fchsm at habitant.org>
> > Message-ID: <004001c8a16b$bb579170$2f01a8c0 at Diane>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
> > reply-type=original
> >
> > Suzanne,
> >
> > I read it on Quebec-Research RootsWeb list that the transcribing, (or was
>it
> > translating), was not done by humans but by machines using test
>recognition
> > software. SHE sounded quite serious.
> > --
> > Richard Van Wasshnova
> > Seal Beach, CA
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Suzanne Sommerville
> > To: fchsm at habitant.org
> > Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 4:49 AM
> > Subject: [FCHSM] New index to Drouin files on Ancestry.ca or Ancestry.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > FCHSM mailing list
> > FCHSM at habitant.org
> > http://habitant.org/mailman/listinfo/fchsm_habitant.org
> >
> > To visit our archives of postings or to unsubscribe, please point your
>browser to our list <a
>href="http://habitant.org/mailman/listinfo/fchsm_habitant.org">webpage</a
> >.
> >
> >
> > End of FCHSM Digest, Vol 23, Issue 18
> > *************************************
>
>
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